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Post Info TOPIC: Yosh box questions


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Yosh box questions


Since quite some time I have a Yosh box built upon Steve's scheme that allows me to adjust idle for each cylinder (pot), and mixture from -10% to +10%) in L/M/H load ranges. Just like the original Yosh box does.

Now someone suggested using a 10k linear pot instead of resistors for the L/M/H ajustments. View here:
http://www.tl1000.de/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9251
Scheme:
http://www.tl1000.de/images/CS_Box_v2_01.pdf

This does work, my bike (TL1000S) was mapped on a dyno with such a box.

Now my question is: In which resolution are the L/M/H values stored in the serial EPROM? I mean if there are only very few possibilities, there is no reason to use a pot. If there are a whole lot, there is.
It would also be interesting to find out if there is a combination to reset all values.

I used search here but didn't get a definite answer. There is some detailed info for the Kawa ECU, but not for the Suzuki.

Btw: I can confirm the box works exactly as described by RidgeRacer: You can adjust values in real time when the bike is running with the box connected and CATCH switch on. The values are stored at the moment when the WRITE switch is hold for some seconds.
I adjusted idle for each cylinder using this method and a CO meter on the PAIR connection on the head. Works perfect.

Greetings
Rufer

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There are a fixed number of Yosh values stored in the NVRAM so there is no reason to replace the fixed resistors with a pot on the two value selection inputs (cylinder, rpm, etc)



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Yes, that's clear.
But replacing the selector switch for -10 -5 0 +5 +10 adjustment in the H/M/L load ranges allows finer adjustment in these ranges.

Maybe my expression was wrong.
I wanted to know the resolution of the a/d converters for the load ranges. If I used an infinite exact pot, what's the resolution of the digital value stored in the EEPROM?

PS: And of course it would also be interesting to have a definite response how many load ranges are supported by the ECU.

Greetings
Rufer

-- Edited by rufer at 21:44, 2009-02-03

-- Edited by rufer at 21:45, 2009-02-03

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I misunderstood.  Yes the pot is better for the adjust input.

The analog inputs have 10bit resolution or

1 / 1024 * 5V = 0.00488 Volts per step.

That is reduced down to and stored as a 8 bit (byte) value 0-255.

A value of 128 or 2.5V  (128/256 * 5V) is 0 adjust. A voltage below 128 (2.5V) is a negative adjust, above 128 is positive adjust. The numbers don't go all the way to 0 or 255 because the pots tend to get erratic at their far limits. I don't know exactly what the limits are for the TLR but they were 0.5V and 4.5V for the ZX-12. If you can give me the resistor values for +10, +5, 0, -5, -10 I could calculate the actual formula for the TLR but it would be something like....

% = ((Vin / 5 * 256) - 128 ) / 10.3

With the pot you get much higher resolution, down to a tenth of a percent fuel change so if +10 is too rich and +5 was too lean you could adjust it to 7.5% with the pot.

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Thank you, that's exactly what I wanted to know. So indeed the pot makes perfectly sense.

The stock yosh box resistor values are (it's a voltage divider):
-10 --> 750
-5 --> 1.5k
0 --> 2.7k
+5 --> 5k
+10 --> 10k

in relation with a 2.7k resistor. 0 is indeed "in the middle" thus 2.5V.

Greetings
Rufer

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With those resistors -10% is 1V and +10% is 4V so the formula would be

% = ((Vin / 5 * 256) - 128 ) / 7.68

or for resistance

% = (((Rin/(Rin + 2700) * 256) - 128 ) / 7.68

If your going to build your own you might want to consider using one of these

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=3682S-1-103L-ND

It is very accurate and will give you repeatable results.  Setting it to 50 will give you 2.5V or 0%; 49 will give you 2.45V, 51 will give 2.55V



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Thank you thumbsup.gif

Greetings
Rufer

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Hi all,

does that mean, that there is one position in NVRAM for those 7 values (and not more?) (In case of TL 1000 ECU)

High (all cylinder)
Mid (all cylinder)
Low (all cylinder)
Idle (cyl. 1)
Idle (cyl. 2)
Idle (cyl. 3)
Idle (cyl. 4)

I read about trying to write values between e.g. High and Mid using a Pot instead of fixed values.

Is there any chance to read this values without opening the ECU ?


Best regards,

balze

-- Edited by balze2 on Monday 3rd of August 2009 12:10:40 PM

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All the Denso ECUs have a telemetry system that allow you to ask them to report certain values like TPS, RPM, Temperatures, ect. using the SDS diagnostic port or the Dash TECH line.  Among the values you can query are the Yosh compensation values provided you know the address values of the variables.

Having said that I could not tell you the particular location for the TLR.  I could for the Busa or GSXRs but I haven't looked them up for the TLR.

I could put it on my list of things to do but it is a pretty long list. If anyone else who is disassembling the TLR code wants some help getting started let me know.


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Thanks for the reply RidgeRacer,

i'm newe to this topic, but would like to dig deeper (in fact for a TLS)

I've some other question regarding disassembling TLS code, so they are a little offtopic.

Do you know a good alternative to IDA Pro ? The free version does not support 68HC11 hmm

Do i understand right, that maps AND code are stored in the TLS EPROM?
How can i dissasemble it without knowledge of the bootloader?

I would appreciate if someone (RRbiggrin) could give me these answers.

Thanks in advance,

balze

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It's me again .....

i'm unable to concentrate on my daily work weirdface.gif

My thoughts are inside the TLS ECU wink

Thinking about your answer (RR) I understand, that you know how the SDS works and gets its information ? (You don't know the location of the data (yet) but the protocol?)

How does the SDS know with which motorcycle it's talking with? Do you have to select this in ths SDS software and then protocol changes?

Could you (or someone else) help me find information about that or (even better) give me some?

THANKS !

Best regards

balze

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Do have one of the older ECUs with an external EPROM chip? If so there is no boot loader. The only way to read/write these ECUs is to remove the chip, install a socket on the circuit board and buy an EPROM programmer box to put the chip into to read/write it.

What is your ECU number? I have the bin for the 32920-02F41 which I can post a listing for.

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RidgeRacer,

thanks for your reply,

i have a 32920-02F21 (German replacement for '97 TLS)
(with an external EPROM, I made the X-ray images of the TLS ECU you might have seen already)

But anyways i'm interested in the bin file listing of the 32920-02F41 and would like to try to understand what it does. The basics should be the same compared to 32920-02F21, doesn't it?

I'm not familiar with 68HC11 that deep (Some Handyboard usage while study), but understand that e.g. Atmel Microcontroller need a boot loader of some kind to get external code.

Is ALL the code stored in EPROM ??
Do you know which type of 68HC11 it is (can't find any information about 15802-8050)

Last question:

Does the SDS work on these ECUs too?

Thanks in advance,

best regards,

balze

P.S.: It's to sad we are on the opposite part of the earth. I would like to have a shorter latency yawnsmile


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Hi all,

i'm still interested in the bin file !

Thanks, best regards,

balze2

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Rufer,

You mentioned above that you did the Adj_A adjustment in real time and it worked. Did you try the Adj_B adjustment in real time as well? If so, did it work?

Thanks,

RoadRunner

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Hello RR

I don't have the equipment to test that, sorry. Need a dyno and probably a lambda sensor for that.

Greetings
Rufer

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Hi, do You anybody find what is the difference of teka and yoshbox programming? there are more TPS areas in teka and I find that somewhre is stated that teka can add more than 10% ...teka 100%. I know that these percents are not exactly percents of injection duration, but does teka add so much more then yosh, or it is equal... 10%yosh=100%teka, and teka has only more fine increments? And what about TPS areas, is it possible that teka has 5 and it does wighted average from between 5points? from what I had read here about NVRAM, it is probably impossible, and teka can do the same as yosh, if it is upgraded with more resistors/pot for adjusting inj.volume.

I wanted to buy teka, but now I dont know if it is worth of the amount it is.

I read here that yoshbox can adjust in realtime too, how it is made? connect to wiring, start the bike and switch on the catch switch? or start the bike with catch switch on? I found everywhere that starting the bike with yosh connected will burn ecu, I think that it is also in the yoshimura instructions...

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I can only respond for the real time programming part: Real time programming is done by connecting the yosh box and then using it as per manual while the bike is running. I verified that this works with idle adjustment, but I don't have the equipment to verify it in the L/M/H ranges while running. I can only guess it's the same.

Greetings
Rufer

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balze2 wrote:

Hi all,

does that mean, that there is one position in NVRAM for those 7 values (and not more?) (In case of TL 1000 ECU)

High (all cylinder)
Mid (all cylinder)
Low (all cylinder)
Idle (cyl. 1)
Idle (cyl. 2)
Idle (cyl. 3)
Idle (cyl. 4)

I read about trying to write values between e.g. High and Mid using a Pot instead of fixed values.

Is there any chance to read this values without opening the ECU ?


Best regards,

balze

-- Edited by balze2 on Monday 3rd of August 2009 12:10:40 PM


 Just thought I'd share an update to these old questions...

If you have a TLR you can actually read (or erase) the yoshbox settings straight from ECUs NVram. You'll need a VAG-COM (CH340) OBD cable and will need to build a small adaptor. You can find out more about it here:

   https://sites.google.com/site/mrhollywoodk3/home/other-16bit-ecus/tl1000r-16bit-ecu


Here's what the data looks like in a stock or freshly formatted TLR ECU:

   https://sites.google.com/site/mrhollywoodk3/home/other-16bit-ecus/tl1000r-16bit-ecu/TLR%20NVram.jpg

 

So to answer the original question, yes there are only these seven settings saved to NVram.

Another interesting thing gleaned from the TLR ecu code is that each throttle setting (L,M,H) will only recognize 5 trim settings; 2 leaner settings, one default and two richer settings. There are no intermediate throttle settings (other than L, M and H), so don't waste your money on a Teka just for the TLR...

:)



-- Edited by mr_hollywood on Monday 10th of July 2017 09:28:59 PM

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