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Post Info TOPIC: A thread for ECU2.0 Questions


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A thread for ECU2.0 Questions


1st off Thanks Petrik!  The new software is really cool.  I really like the no user level as well.

Ill start off with a list of questions that I have been asked, or I am sure I will be asked very soon, and I don't know the answers yet.

All regarding GenII flashing:

Is igntion mapping functional?  There are some very large numbers in part of the map.

When making changes to the fuel tables, for now is just for Mode A, both MS0 and MS1?

When making changes to the fuel tables, are both upper and lower injectors effected by the changes?

How high has the rev limiter setting been tested to?  Will 12,500 RPM limiter take care of both fuel and ignition limits to this level?

What does Clear DTC do in gauge data screen?  Does this clear stored fault codes in the ECU? 

Do US bikes have a pair valve output now like the Gen 1 euro bikes?  If so is there thoughts about making this adjustable like gen1 flapper valve control?  If so, does anyone know what the pair valve connector looks like (I dont have a gen 2 bike here)

Fast vs Normal flash mode.  Is there ever a case where normal mode is required?  I think it would make sense to me if you had a US ecu and wanted to change to European or something.  But to make limiter, fueling, timing changes etc there is no reason to have to do the normal flash is there?  I have been unsuccessful at the normal flash so far, it goes for a long time then i get some sort of error message.  Right after the error message I am able to connect to gauge data and it still works, no idea if the ecu would start in a bike or not though.








-- Edited by smithabusa on Thursday 2nd of July 2009 12:23:48 PM

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Hi Greg, as far as the pair valve plug.....I could take a picture of it and send it to you if you like?
If you have a Gen2 Service manual, its the valve that sits under neath the fuel tank. Lemme know if you need a Pic Sir.

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If you had a pic would be awesome, if its easy to get to, and if you can tell me number of pins etc. maybe even a pic with connector apart so we can figure out what it is. Just in case it turns into a shift light output or something :)

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Is igntion mapping functional?  There are some very large numbers in part of the map.
- Tested on workbench, large numbers are for closed throttle positions.

When making changes to the fuel tables, for now is just for Mode A, both MS0 and MS1?
- Right now it is so, mode B/C can be implemented too - but first need to find a way how we implement those. Alternatively all A/B/C x MS0/MS1 needs to be mapped and that is a big excersise in a dyno

When making changes to the fuel tables, are both upper and lower injectors effected by the changes?
- Yes, the secondaries go on when primaries are at around 90% pulsewidth. Normally that is around 6000 rpm.

How high has the rev limiter setting been tested to?  Will 12,500 RPM limiter take care of both fuel and ignition limits to this level?
- I have not tested higher, we shall see this in time

What does Clear DTC do in gauge data screen?  Does this clear stored fault codes in the ECU? 
- It is Clear the DTC code button. Not tested properly as I needed to return the SDS box.

Do US bikes have a pair valve output now like the Gen 1 euro bikes?  If so is there thoughts about making this adjustable like gen1 flapper valve control?  If so, does anyone know what the pair valve connector looks like (I dont have a gen 2 bike here)
- Don know, have not tested it yet. In time we will figure out.

Fast vs Normal flash mode.  Is there ever a case where normal mode is required?  I think it would make sense to me if you had a US ecu and wanted to change to European or something.  But to make limiter, fueling, timing changes etc there is no reason to have to do the normal flash is there?  I have been unsuccessful at the normal flash so far, it goes for a long time then i get some sort of error message.  Right after the error message I am able to connect to gauge data and it still works, no idea if the ecu would start in a bike or not though.
- The ecu is built so that programming code is in the first half of the code with also map address pointers. The second half is reserved for extended mapping. When changing ecu to fast mode then you change pointers so that you only use one map memory segment for flashing which means that you can get away by just flashing that segment. Anyway to make changes to the programming code like installing shifter you need to flash the ecu "almost" fully as that also modifies programming code. So Full flash programs all map areas, fast flashing only one area. Therefore you can not change limiters etc. when using fast mode as that does not write those memory areas.

You always do a "normal" flash automatically when changing flashing mode. The flashing mode is read from the ecu.

The flashing is relatively fast on a fast pc, but very slow on an old system. So first try with a different laptop to complete a full flas and if still unsuccesfull, lets try to find out where the process is stopped and why to fix this problem. Anyhow due to the fact that this is written with Visual Basic (high level language) using FTDI VCP drivers which are known to be slow with byte mode use of slower pc:s can not be quaranteed. (Unless someone who has a slow pc and visual basic 2008 wants to have a look into this and fix it).




-- Edited by PetriK on Saturday 4th of July 2009 02:36:02 PM

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so for fuel tuning, the ecu tuning is far superior to power commander and bazzaz as they can only attack 1 set of injectors? Sounds great!

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Of course its superior smile.gif, also there is one more thing to be noted: The fuel flow seems to be dependent on vacuum changes for kind of acceleration enrichment. As you know powercommander and other piggybacks do not have access to vacuum input to ensure that you get this right.

The gen2 ecu is so sofisticated... its actually more diffucult to figure out an easy user interface for controlling each new function in gen2 than in gen1 as gen1 even versatile is more limited.




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its good news gor GenII owners that you now own this bike ;)

You do nice work Petrik!

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I have one Fellaz, those's of us that are already running PC's and Bazzaz's, once we switch to the ECU Editor.............what do we do with the stock O2 plug when running after market exhausts? On the Fi box's they have an O2 Plug(believe its a resister of some sort)that you install so that the ECU does not throw a Code. Do we just leave these in or is there some other way to bypass it? Thanks in advance!
handshake.gif


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I have always just left the O2 sensor in as stock or at minimum running the narrowband emulation from my wideband unit. It provides sensor information that I value for e.g. quick checks with datascreen to see the idle etc mixtures.

We shall go into details of that when there is some units out there who start to utilize the datascreen feature.




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Thanks Petrik, so maybe it would be a good idea to re-install stock O2 sensor into the after market exhaust system??

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2.0.1.2 Reflashing reset timer interrupt made longer for more reliable flasing. Currenlty known major bugs:

- Allows reflashing segments 5-F even with shifter code is in memory. Causes check in gauges. Click shifter on-off and problem fixed.
- Allows modifying MS maps when in Fast mode, changes not applied
- Tracing on fuel maps do not work




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To be added:

- After flashing check sum is not currently checked, this is to be added to a future release

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Build 2.0.1.9
- Includes verify button
- Flash checksum test added when full flashing
- Programming and verify progress indicators now visible even if PC is used for something else too.



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i will give it a try tonight when i get home to read the california ecu :)

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smithabusa wrote:

i will give it a try tonight when i get home to read the california ecu :)



Thanks Greg, please let me know when im ok to flash biggrin

 



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You may want to wait until we know the differences between cal and us. Its likely that you want to use us settings for flashing, but lets wait and see. When greg has made the vefify and posts the file over here then Ill run the differences using aptdiff and disassembled code.

Of course when talking about cal then any mods may be made for off road bikes only.


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I am going to have a BIG disclaimer on the page for this, all bikes not even cali saying off road use only.

Ill do it up when i get home tonight :)

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Sounds Good! smile


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after all,these are all race bikes only right???whisper.gif

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09 busa.????? now what....still got what it takes.......!

I got what you need...!
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stocker wrote:

after all,these are all race bikes only right???whisper.gif




ABSOLUTELY SIR! relax.gif



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Build 2.0.1.12

- Added a small wait timer to flashing to improve tolerance to other applications running simultaneously
- Fixed datastream clutch setting, was not working correctly
- Removed view ecu id from datasream, not needed as same function now with verify ecu



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PetriK wrote:

Build 2.0.1.12

- Added a small wait timer to flashing to improve tolerance to other applications running simultaneously
- Fixed datastream clutch setting, was not working correctly
- Removed view ecu id from datasream, not needed as same function now with verify ecu



SUPURB PETRIK! worship.gif

 



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This is just about fixing the mapping part of the sw so that I can start using it for dynoing also by myself. These updates are coming out regularly when ever I have time to fix things. Also try to fix bugs reported by users of this test version. Anyhow at this stage can not promise to add new functionality unless already planned.

2.0.1.15
- Added +- change, % change and IAP/TPS/RPM values to the fuel mapping screen
- Fixed IAP on data monitoring screen
- pcv mapping funtion preliminary tested
- map tracing on fuel mapping screen fixed






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PetriK wrote:

This is just about fixing the mapping part of the sw so that I can start using it for dynoing also by myself. These updates are coming out regularly when ever I have time to fix things. Also try to fix bugs reported by users of this test version. Anyhow at this stage can not promise to add new functionality unless already planned.

2.0.1.15
- Added +- change, % change and IAP/TPS/RPM values to the fuel mapping screen
-



Excellent PetriK, I think this will help with determining changes. smile

Any plans to throw a few updates at Gen1 as well (such as this display and maybe choice between 1% or 5% incremental changes)?

It is a shame that there are not more motorcycle tuning enthusiasts that are at least slightly familiar with coding on the board. no
John

 



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John, I don't know about that. I'm sure Petrik has inspired a few of us to learn.

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Build 2.0.1.23
- Should have improved engine data monitoring reliability for dyno use
- Added a small note about gear limiters in limiter settings screen

-------------------

Mark & John - one should remember that last time I did some programming was around mid '80s just after university, so this is a learning opportunity for all of us inlcuding myself.

But must admit one thing, feel embarassed about the amount of positive feedback received bearing in mind how easy this kind of things are at the end and how there is much wider community to credit. We should remember that RR has enabled all of this by setting up this ecuhack forum for comms and helping out initially. Also DaveO did play instrumental role in initially showing the way whats important in tuning. Without Greg we would not have hardware to move forward. There is also locos JariM and JaSa who help out all the time with feedback and testing. Not to forget everyone on this board also helps the project by giving feedback and testing if things work as expected.


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wowi can't keep up, got 20 last night.

any chance of changing the error message about setting interface cable? People get confused as it says restart program. Maybe a note just saying use the drop down menu in the gauge data screen then click connect?

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of course, can you be more specific which error text should be changed ? maybe a screenshot or something and then a precise text ?




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Is 120 a default setting for fuel pressure in Gen2?

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Build 2.0.1.26
- apply bz map added, just select correct file extension from file open dialogue and you can choose either pcv or bz map.
- changed datastream error message as per request from greg. (may change the way how com port is set up at a later stage.)

Jarim, fuel pressure correction not yet tested. Currently its just a default value for a parameter that I suspect being fuel injector multiplier. in in both gen1 and gen2 the ecu internal value is 128 which in ecueditor is rounded to nearest 10 downwards. gen1 formula is newsize = (100 / i) * 128.



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Build 2.0.1.29
- Added Fuelmap Key * : Multily by 1.05
- Added Fuelmap Key / : Divide by 1.05
- Added a message to set up com port if not already set when starting the program


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Very Cool Petrik! smile 
Have a question maybe someone could answer.......when running a PC or Bazzaz, do these units only apply changes/control the TPS map and not the IPS? Meaning(in theory), could I just load my Bazzaz map into ee2 on the TPS map and have the same Tune/results as running the Bazzaz by itself on the bike?
Hope this makes sense....kinda hard to explain on the key board. confuse Thanks in advance


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Not so straight forward. When <10% all piggybacks more or less run correction based on TPS position where as ecu runs based on IAP. That means that TPS may be steady, e,g, 9% but IAP vary from 10 to 60. In practise somthing like this happens when the bike runs first with high load and then gradually settles for low load. Often the RPM then changes too.

We can generate a separate rough function that converts a TPS position to an IAP position for street riding, but lets first get the results of piggyback% to ee% conversion AFRs somewhat confirmed.

Basically for that kind of converson function we can split the IAP map into e.g. four quarters and use 1% opening for high vacuum like idling, 2-3% opening for medium vacuum etc. but to get the engine properly tuned then you really need to adjust IAP map based on Load rather than guessing from the TPS position.



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Understood, Thanks for clearing that up for me. I have a Wego3(wideband)installed, so I think I'm gonna give My Bazzaz map a try in EE2, then use the AFR data to somewhat tune IAP for the street. I will post back on whether I have any luck with doing it this way.

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Maybe you could also try to find out how much the AFR needs to be adjusted as it will help us to generate a better conversion function.


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PetriK wrote:


Maybe you could also try to find out how much the AFR needs to be adjusted as it will help us to generate a better conversion function.




Will Do, let me see what I can come up with.



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Build 2.0.1.36
- Ignition map editing improved, now includes changes to comparemap and correct coloring
- Fixed a bug in setting group3 ignition for all gears
- MS0, MS1 ignition editing
- Copy MS0 map to MS1 map with c command
- Editing ignitionmap causes normal flash mode being triggered, otherwise values will not be written to the flash

Ignition still to be fully tested on both desktop workbench and dyno.



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Build 2.0.1.38
- Both Fuel and Ignition MS1 mapping seems to be working now based on workbench testing. All testing done in ModeA. ModeB and C to be tested later, but those should only affect STP values not fuel and ignition.

I think we are now about at a point where a bike can be mapped in dyno for fuel and ignition for both MS0 and MS1. At this stage all cylinder values are unified for both fuel and ignition.



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PetriK wrote:

Build 2.0.1.38
- Both Fuel and Ignition MS1 mapping seems to be working now based on workbench testing. All testing done in ModeA. ModeB and C to be tested later, but those should only affect STP values not fuel and ignition.

.....


The different STP opening behaviour in Mode A, B and C affects also the fuel maps.
Mode C e.g. operates with very small STP openings and so it is neccessary to adapt the fueling to the decreased airflow.
Ignition seems to be the same in all modes.

 



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I just struck an odd problem and it may or may not be associated with the reflash, v 29
gen 1 busa,reflashed with the mcxpress, 12k bin , opened the bin in editor and tried flashing, fdt simple opened and when i hit programme flash it couldn't connect, comm port error, but i have it on 3 and it says its on 3, then closed editor and fdt windows, opened fdt on its own and hit reflash and it worked fine but i wasn't sure just which flash i was installing ??

Anyhow the bike all starts and runs ok, haven't had a chance to check limits or mapping till tomorrow but.... here's the odd bit... side stand down kills engine .. throws check light... AND puts the temp gauge to hot.???? is it still in programme mode ??

And i'm not sure it was not doing this previously, other guys bike i'm helping fit the turbo system, though i'm fairly sure we has it idling on the side stand before we loaded the bike in the pickup...maybe

Any insights would be welcome

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older 1.x ecueditor versions do not support fdt being used outside ecueditor and its likely that you have flashed somthing else than an ecueditor file.

about the check on gauges check your user manual on what happens when ecu is not powered on, like in this case if the stand is down and gear is on.

as i dont have a test rig up and running and as my own bike is now gen2 you propaly would get best answers from suzukihayabusa.org for this kind on of questions where there are a lot of gen1 bikers using ee1.x. i am now trying to concentrate on making the ecueditor2.0 robust for gen2, which seems to be almost there. after that we can look what to do with gen1 stuff if there is interest.


-- Edited by PetriK on Thursday 16th of July 2009 08:41:00 AM

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No old versions of editor left in my computer, keeping up to your progress and replacing with the new version each time, deleting the old .
Stand down, in gear will kill the engine , and give a chec warning but not hold the temp gauge high.thats what seemed odd
I'm not at all stressed by this as i can rom raider a std or modified bin back in anytime , and probably should as it would confirm or not if the problem was as simple as a faulty gps

Your making very quick progress on the gen 2 stuff ,i can barely keep up to yesterdays efforts

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ee2.0 onwards you can flash separately with fdt too, removed the protection flags there for gen1.

when stand is down it cuts the power from ecu and as there is no power to ecu there is no signal to gauge cluster. no signal to gauge cluster means check and temp high if gauge is in good operating condition. so what you describle that killengine, check and gauge in mid position means problems with the gauge cluster.

these may not apply to what you describe above, but for future reference:
- how's the gauge cluster, has it been opened by someone ?
- have you checked whats the ecueditor data monitoring screen saying about sensors ?
-how about fi codes with tst switch on ?
- if you suspect programming mode on, please talk with the person who made the programming interface for you.

sometimes progress is fast, sometimes very slow. yesterday wanted to push the software to a level where it can be used in dyno.



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PetriK; J Kumpulainen reported to me that data tracing works quite ok with the cable I built and with the latest EE2. So the progress and efforts you have done in last couple of days to the tracing part seem to pay off very well. smile

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Thanks - for non locals som background info, J Kumpu is running strong 2nd on national series with his all motor 1441 busa on a local FHRA class called PSB. He is currently running around 8.5s with foot shifting etc where as the leader with nitrous kawi runs around 8.3-8.4s times. This team has the kawi to which we tried to install a busa ecu but did not complete that before the season started so we will have another go for this after this season.


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I will do some checking and if still having probs start a thread and not take up too much of this one with seperate issues.
bike in question has not got an interface fitted, using my bike to flash the swap ecu back,
Smitha's reflashbox , worked fine on my other bikes .
I did remove the tre... maybe it was hiding a problem.
will check with alt ecu and tre .

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External problem, still unidentified, alt ecu and tre ...still faults, bypassed stand switch for now.


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Ran into something today, just thought I'd bring it up, dont know if it's a little glitch or maybe Petrik did it this way for a reason....im pretty sure its the ladder.
When the Bike is running and and I hit "Connect to Engine Data" it kills the Bike(engine quits running). Nothing else really happens, it does connect, and then you just have to re-start the bike again. I just thought that was kinda wierd and dont really understand why this is?? confuse Maybe thats just what has to happen for the SDS to connect if the bike is running?
Like I said just thought I'd put it out there. wink

On a side note.......I've been playing around with the timing map(s) a little. I bumped up the timing a little in some different areas and the but Dyno feels pretty good! biggrin The bike feelz ALOT more responsive & Peppy in the lower to mid range power band.
I wanted to try out the bazzaz map upload into ee2 today also, but I'm still not to clear on whether I "need" to have the factory O2 Sensor installed or not, and what effects it has on the over all Spectrum???? Any more input on this would be Great!  



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Yes you are correct, the engine data start up resets the ecu and kills the engine for a restart. I could not make the data to syncronize reliably without this so decide to leave it there.

You dont need to have the factory sensor installed, but my intention is to make the ability to monitor factory sensor as a tuning tool so at longer term youre likely to benefit from it.

At this stage many of the things are experimental and you like many of us others are pioneers who will discover new things, some of which are beneficial already today and some that we may want to change in the coming versions fot the tuning software.


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Im a little confused here,but can I check Air/Fuel ratio withis or will I need another device to do that?

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