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Post Info TOPIC: A concept for boost enrichment...


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A concept for boost enrichment...


PetriK wrote:

The ecueditor.com 2.2 is now latest tested version.

First untested version published as Ecueditor.com version 2.3 for seeing the boost control user interface alive.

http://www.ecueditor.com




-- Edited by PetriK on Saturday 8th of May 2010 09:04:18 PM

-- Edited by PetriK on Saturday 8th of May 2010 09:04:38 PM



Is anyone else having an issue Down loading the Latest 2.3.0.25???(Beta Version) I cant seem to get it loaded! I have Completely Removed ALL EE2 Files off my Laptop(Twice), then Tried Re-installing 2.3.0.25 But it Keeps Down loading the Same "2.2.0.24"......Help Please? confuse

 



-- Edited by ToXSicK RoCKeT on Sunday 9th of May 2010 11:10:55 AM

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Ok your just using the ports different to how i have done,

Toxsick, i am having trouble loading the latest version but had not uninstalled an earlier version, nor too concerned yet, still several weeks till i have a boosted bike to play with .

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yep, 2.3 is almost there... This is the same issue as earlier when changing the version to new directory.

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Now 2.3 should be ok to download, please note that the boostfuel in that one is not yet tested. Other than boostfuel should be ok and stable.

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Nev version of the boostconroller initially tested on a bike on dyno and seems to work. We only controlled pressure to wastegate with adding pressure with solenoid, so no double pressure lines needed at least in this case.



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so just a solenoid feeding the top of the wastegate, no mufflers or bleeds or anything right?  Just making sure want to resume testing very soon :)

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There was an adjustable unit to reduce to flow before the solenoid to make the flow smoother.



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boostfuel_solenoid.jpg

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For those of you who are considering high power over 400 dynojet rwhp or over 300 rwhp standard dyno.

There may be an issue in what is the current electric system capable of delivering to coils. Strenghtening the +12V line and ecu grounding may help.

http://www.suzukihayabusa.org/forum/index.php?topic=145258.msg1411089#new


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within past week 2 more bikes dyno tuned with boost fuel.

1 of them with larger upper injectors

the other stock motor'd bike at 6 psi of boost or so only (didn't change anything from my map and AFR looks pretty good)

More details as soon as owners agree I can post details.

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This bike was tuned at powerhouse cycles

RCC Turbo kit with ultra w/a plenum
rc 650cc injectors in the upper rail
msbc1 boost controller
wossner rods, pistons, arp head studs, the works
240 rear tire (probably robbing some hp)
tuned on pump fuel, 17 psi of boost for 347 hp











-- Edited by smithabusa on Wednesday 19th of May 2010 12:05:17 PM

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Stock motor'd bike (stock compression), dropped my basemap in and didn't tune anything i dont think and AFR looked pretty close. 











-- Edited by smithabusa on Wednesday 19th of May 2010 12:09:39 PM

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good deal, looks like it is working, on the second bike was the boost controled by ee2...?

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no just gate spring

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is boost control working then with the air switching valve? I am so close to getting ready to tune. Does Greg have the air switching valve set up plug n play through the pair valve? thanks

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Just tested some last night with great results, post on sh.org turbo talk: )

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6 psi


8 psi


9.5 psi


11 psi


Here is 14 psi, here you can see where I have too much duty cycle programmed in (this duty cycle will make more than 14 psi of boost, but ecu is shutting solenoid control off when it hits 14 psi, then lets it become active again when boost drops below 14 psi).  so if i want 14 psi boost smooth, i should lower the duty cycle down until its nice and smooth, or bump my max pressure up to 15 psi and then tune duty cycle more etc.








-- Edited by smithabusa on Friday 4th of June 2010 08:13:29 PM

-- Edited by smithabusa on Friday 4th of June 2010 08:15:05 PM

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got a 30 minute ride in before it poured, never got a chance on the nice flat smooth road to get a sweet datalog, but this is close enough, you will see i never get above 80% throttle, in 1st gear i am only 40-50% throttle,

gate springis 6 psi, 1st gear only 4-5 psi with so light in the throttle, but the rest of the gears working out quite nicely :)  I am sure had i kept in it 100% throttle boost traces would have been much nicer, but man a stock arm is a trip LOL.

1:  4.5 psi
2:  6.0 psi
3:  8.5 psi
4: 10.0 psi
5: 13.0 psi
6: 14.0 psi

Petrik, YOU ROCK BUDDY!!!

 



-- Edited by smithabusa on Friday 4th of June 2010 11:56:04 PM

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sweet, i bet it was a rush........it looks like it is a bit more manageable than having full boost through all gears....smile

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umm YES, for sure :)  I just need to get used to 300+ stock wheelbase'd hp in the upper gears, it pulls pretty hard, i guess the yellow bike pulls harder, but with a 6 over arm it seems so much easier haha.

Petrik once again THANKS SO MUCH!



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cool, i got to agree, thanks petrik for all you do for ALL of the hayabusa owners around the world who use your software........biggrin

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stocker wrote:

cool, i got to agree, thanks petrik for all you do for ALL of the hayabusa owners around the world who use your software........biggrin




X3!!!! Petrik, Don't know what we would do without you Bud! no Thank You for ALL the Hard work you Put into Helping us all go Faster, with a Safer Tune! smile



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Ive got a good 500-600 miles of boost fuel riding now, and the last 300 or so with boost control active, and everything is working so well.  The rides I have been on have been more so testing things and datalogging, so I am doing very very little putting around, lots of top end pulls, and repeated boost applies etc, and its all working sweet.  Thanks again Petrik!

Last night pulled 10320 actual rpm (from datalog), which was about 11,100 ish on the tach in 6th gear, what a rush at about 13 psi of boost.

Greg


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About a week or so ago RCC Turbos tuned another gen II turbo bike with boostfuel, something along the lines of 190 hp on spring pressure up to 310 hp at 12-13 psi of boost.  Another successful story :)



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Petrik's latest release, 2.3.1.34 has boost control all aced up :)

Normally closed option is what i am running on my bike using the external gate setup. Duty cycle is what you want to be changing to increase / decrease boost, using the max target boost as a safety, if you put too much duty cycle and the ecu has to keep shutting solenoid off when hitting the max target boost per gear it will result in notchy performance, get it tweaked just right and nice and smoooooth :)

www.boostbysmith.com/Photos/boostdiagram-normally-closed.jpg



-- Edited by smithabusa on Wednesday 16th of June 2010 03:42:46 AM

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greg do you have p-n-p map sensor harness available....biggrin

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stocker wrote:

greg do you have p-n-p map sensor harness available....biggrin



NOW he does after I chopped my harness up....LOL

 



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in stock....stocker :)

richard at RCC turbos has a bunch of them as well in stock

-- Edited by smithabusa on Thursday 17th of June 2010 02:47:21 AM

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Petrik,

I'm working on my gen II project and learning about the ECUeditor for a turbo application. I was thinking about increasing the limiter to 12K RPM but the max RPM's are 12K in the boost fuel map. I'm not sure if I'm going to able to do this because the fuel cells interpolate. In essence, if I tune the bike up to 12K RPM I would "think" it should have fuel cells above 12K to tune with.

1. Do you think I can tune the turbo bike to 12K RPM with the current software and have a 12K RPM limiter?

2. If I can't tune it to 12K RPM can the boostfuel table program be increased to 13K RPM?

Thank you sir.

Jason

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If I remember correctly some of the tables run out at 12400rpm, after that the max value will be used. This is the reason why initially RPM limiter max was set to 12000rpm, but now increased as per users request.

On turbofuel module it is fairly easy to add some more rpm rows if needed.

We again tuned one turbofuel bike here - and I think we are getting to a point where the software is just used, no more getting much feedback on things that need to be improved.




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PetriK wrote:

If I remember correctly some of the tables run out at 12400rpm, after that the max value will be used. This is the reason why initially RPM limiter max was set to 12000rpm, but now increased as per users request.

On turbofuel module it is fairly easy to add some more rpm rows if needed.

We again tuned one turbofuel bike here - and I think we are getting to a point where the software is just used, no more getting much feedback on things that need to be improved.



If we could get the boostfuel tables increased to 13K I would appreciate it.  I'm not a computer guru or advanced tuner but I'll share my experiences and results tuning the 08 turbo bike if you would like.  Thank you sir.

Jason

 



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hi i'm new here,
so ee2 does fueling by boost????


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it sure does, my bike was tuned from 194 hp to 356 hp using ecu only, and has gear based boost control :)

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and now for gen 1 nothing yet for contolling fuel by boost????

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Correct, Gen 2 only for programmable boost fueling

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Does the ignition retard portion of the boost control function as intended?



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to the best of my knowledge yes it does. i am using it to pull timing in the upper gears

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Any particular reason for concern ?


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No reason for concern. I was researching the ignition retard, and elsewhere you had noted that the functionality was there but not tested (ported from nitrous control). I was just wondering if it had been used.

PetriK, What is the logic behind making the ignition retard gear based rather than manifold pressure based? Is this just a carryover from the nitrous control module?

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Just a carryover, as you set the max boost perngear that was easiest route to implement.



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Below is a table that should work for converting the Values in the Gen2 boost fueling module to be compatible with an SSI 5 bar absolute pressure sensor. Data for the suzuki to GM 3bar are based on data provided by PetriK early in this post.

I have also included the proposed nominal values and high pressure value of 4.5V@60.3 psi for the SSI sensor to be used in a boost compensated fueling chart. Suggestion is to use the current 3Bar chart as is and add a few more columns, up to ~45 psi.



kPa Psi Volt (SSI-5bar) Volt (GM 3bar) Volt (Suzuki)
0 -14.7 0.50 0.00 0.00
10 -13.2 0.58 0.16 0.38
20 -11.8 0.65 0.32 0.72
30 -10.3 0.73 0.48 1.10
40 -8.8 0.81 0.64 1.46
50 -7.4 0.89 0.79 1.81
60 -5.9 0.97 0.96 2.18
70 -4.4 1.05 1.12 2.52
80 -3.0 1.12 1.28 2.89
101 0.2 1.29 1.62 3.64
110 1.5 1.36 1.76 3.79
120 2.9 1.44 1.91 3.94
130 4.3 1.51 2.07 4.09
140 5.8 1.59 2.23 4.24
150 7.4 1.68 2.40 4.39
170 10.3 1.83 2.72 4.54
190 13.3 1.99 3.04 4.69
200 14.7 2.07 3.20 4.84
230 19.2 2.31 3.68 4.99
244 21.0 2.40

259 23.0 2.51

272 25.0 2.62

300 29.0 2.83

313 31.0 2.94

327 33.0 3.04

341 35.0 3.15

355 37.0 3.26

369 39.0 3.36

382 41.0 3.47

396 43.0 3.58

410 45.0 3.68

516 60.3 4.50



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Thanks, now all we would need to do is to change these numbers below. There is two places where a conversion is needed. The first one is for vacuum area and the second one is for boost area.

If you can calculate the new numbers for this new sensor I can easily put a button to ecueditor that lets the user to select which boost sensor is used.

EDIT - The examble of 0x52/0xFF *5V -> 1,61V refers to ambient pressure of 1bar in the above message where GM3bar sensor 1bar is 1,62V.


// conversion for GM3bar sensor, vacuum area here the 0 bar for suzuki sensor is 0xB7 and 0bar for GM 3 bar sensor is 0x50 (if I remember corractly). Numbers are kPa values, ie. 100=1bar.

// -100,-90 -80  -70   -60   -51   -40   -30   -21    0     +20    +35  kPa, 35 is the max for Suzuki sensor
0x00, 0x08, 0x10, 0x18, 0x20, 0x27, 0x30, 0x38, 0x3F, 0x50, 0x60, 0x6C, 0xFF, 0xFF, 0xFF, 0xFF,  // 0x55814
0x24, 0x33, 0x41, 0x50, 0x5E, 0x6B, 0x7C, 0x8B, 0x97, 0xB7, 0xD4, 0xEA, 0xFF, 0xFF, 0xFF, 0xFF}; // 0x55824

// This is the boostmap, i.e. 0.01bar the value is 0x52 which is appr 0x52/0xFF * 5V voltage level

const unsigned char boostmap[] = {       
// 1     9    16    23    34    41    59    72  new  88    new   106   121   134   152   168       This is the positive pressure to ecumap
0x52, 0x58, 0x5E, 0x63, 0x6C, 0x73, 0x81, 0x8b, 0x92, 0x98, 0xa0, 0xa6, 0xb2, 0xbd, 0xcb, 0xd8,   // 0x55844



-- Edited by PetriK on Monday 20th of December 2010 06:18:19 PM

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PetriK, I believe this is what you are after. I am a rookie at all of this (although I have great interest). I left of the 0x as I beliefve this is implied when dealin with HEX.

kPaPsiVolt (SSI-5bar)Volt (SSI HEX)Volt (GM 3bar)Volt (Suzuki)
0-14.70.50190.000.00
10-13.20.581D0.160.38
20-11.80.65210.320.72
30-10.30.73250.481.10
40-8.80.81290.641.46
50-7.40.892D0.791.81
60-5.90.97310.962.18
70-4.41.05351.122.52
80-3.01.12391.282.89
1010.21.29421.623.64
1101.51.36451.763.79
1202.91.44491.913.94
1304.31.514D2.074.09
1405.81.59512.234.24
1507.41.68552.404.39
17010.31.835D2.724.54
19013.31.99653.044.69
20014.72.07693.204.84
23019.22.31753.684.99
24421.02.407A
25923.02.5180
27225.02.6285
30029.02.8390
31331.02.9495
32733.03.049B
34135.03.15A0
35537.03.26A6
36939.03.36AB
38241.03.47B0
39643.03.58B6
41045.03.68BB
51660.34.50E5


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It has been brought to my attention that the higher levels of boost should not need to be on only 2psi increments, rather 5psi increments would be sufficient and therefore I propose the following data table be implemented as the selestable sensor ranges. This would only add 3 additional colums to the current table.


kPaPsiVolt (SSI-5bar)Volt (SSI HEX)Volt (GM 3bar)Volt (Suzuki)
0-14.70.50190.000.00
10-13.20.581D0.160.38
20-11.80.65210.320.72
30-10.30.73250.481.10
40-8.80.81290.641.46
50-7.40.892D0.791.81
60-5.90.97310.962.18
70-4.41.05351.122.52
80-3.01.12391.282.89
1010.21.29421.623.64
1101.51.36451.763.79
1202.91.44491.913.94
1304.31.514D2.074.09
1405.81.59512.234.24
1507.41.68552.404.39
17010.31.835D2.724.54
19013.31.99653.044.69
20014.72.07693.204.84
23019.22.31753.684.99
24421.02.407A
25923.02.5180
27225.02.6285
30029.02.8390
31331.02.9495
32735.03.15A0
34140.03.42AE
35545.03.68BB


-- Edited by sportbikeryder on Monday 20th of December 2010 10:21:19 PM

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Chaging the x-axis from 16 to 27 would mean that all old boost maps are not anymore compatible with this. Could we still keep the 16 point map or just acknlowedge that e.g. from version 2.6 onwards the boost map compatibility is lost.



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That is certainly a possibility, however there are likely a fair number of bikes that are already tuned with the current mapping resolution.

Is it practical to make a sensor select radio button with one option being the map exactly as it is now for 3 bar usage and to preserve the tunes of already mapped engines, and have the 5 bar map with modified cells? Perhaps keeping the lower ranges the same as they are now in order to at least (potentially) be able to transfer some of the drivability (low boost) map data to the new map?

This would be similar to the extended map option currently available to extend the map up to 31 psi.



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From programming perspective all constants we see on the screen will move if we add cells to the map - in practise this means maps are not compatible without some quite workly programming.

There are two solutions:
A) Leave v2.5 as the last one with 16 map and introduce v2.6 onwards with e.g. 36 cell map without compatibility with v2.5.
B) Continue using 16x map and just change the bar column headings.

The second choise is a bit easier to implement, but not much. So this is really for you guys who use this to decide. We have some time here still for next season, so maybe you could ask this on other forums too ?



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Richard of RCC Turbos (Canada) has expressed interest AND has a Gen2 turbo bike that he can test the new sensor with. He has suggested that resolution at 25psi and above need only be in ~5psi increments.

I believe a chart with 2-4-6-8-10-12-14-16-18-20-22-25-30-35-40-45 would work well and not cause current bike compatiblity issues (through use of a sensor select button). If Zero needs to be included, then the top can be cut off at 40 psi (VERY few bikes over 40 PSI, especially without a standalone ECU)


Edit: Chart below with increments shown as in text above

Ecu Editor GEN2 Boost Fueling Manifold Pressure Sensor Conversions 12-21-2010
kPaPsiVolt (SSI-5bar)Volt (SSI HEX)Volt (GM 3bar)Volt (Suzuki)
0-14.70.50190.000.00
10-13.20.581D0.160.38
20-11.80.65210.320.72
30-10.30.73250.481.10
40-8.80.81290.641.46
50-7.40.892D0.791.81
60-5.90.97310.962.18
70-4.41.05351.122.52
80-3.01.12391.282.89
1010.21.29421.623.64
1142.01.39461.763.79
1284.01.504C1.913.94
1416.01.60512.074.09
1558.01.71572.234.24
16910.01.825C2.404.39
18312.01.92622.724.54
19714.02.03673.044.69
21016.02.146D3.204.84
22418.02.24723.684.99
23820.02.3577
25222.02.467D
27225.02.6285
30730.02.8893
34135.03.15A0
37640.03.42AE
41045.03.68BB


-- Edited by sportbikeryder on Tuesday 21st of December 2010 04:44:47 PM

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Thanks,

Started to implement this, but noticed that I miss the formula for showing the pressurevalues from hex values and reverse. This is needed for both metric and imperial conversions. Formulas should be available in the sensor documentation...

Other than the formulas below I think is now implemented and just waiting for this information.

For GM3bar the formula is the following:
If metric Then
   WriteFlashWord(&H55802, (((14.7 * Int(T_overboost.Text) / 100) + 14.7) * 50.5 / 9.2))
Else
   WriteFlashWord(&H55802, ((Int(T_overboost.Text) + 14.7) * 50.5 / 9.2))

...and reverse...

If Metric Then
   i = Int(((((BOOST / 50.5) * 9.2) - 14.7) / 14.7) * 100)
Else
   i = Int(((((BOOST / 50.5) * 9.2) - 14.7)))
End If





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I will take a look to see what I can come up with. You are referring to a formula for the display in the ECU editor GUI from the values correct?

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