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Post Info TOPIC: What features do you want in a map editor?


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What features do you want in a map editor?


As part of the process of developing a commercial ECU flashing product I am writing a map editor. The first version will be a legacy version that will read existing RomRaider XML definitions. I plan on making this version shareware to get people to use it and give me feedback on the basic user interface.

So I'm looking for any ideas from those of you who have used RomRaider or other map editors to see what you would like in your ideal map editor.

The major issue right now is how long it takes RomRaider to load a bin. For the newer bikes with 400+ maps it takes several minutes to load and half the time it crashes. So it needs to load quickly. Speaking of all the maps, the categories need more depth to make it easier to navigate all those maps. Something like this...

gsxr6_004.jpg

Another complaint I've heard about RomRaider that on really big maps you do most the tuning in the lower left quadrant (hi rpm, hi throttle) but you can't see the Throttle, RPM axis when your scrolled over to that area.

A simple solution is to have fixed column and row headers that follow the view as you scroll down

This image shows two different scrolled views of the same map.

gsxr6_005.jpg


Another thing I think I will add is an override of the defined axis forumla.  Sometimes looking at the maps makes more sense when looking at the Throttle as percentage of travel but if you are actually tuning the bike then it would be better to have it displayed as voltage so you can use your log data to find which cell of the map you are looking for.

Obviously none of these examples are ground breaking or new but these are the kind of small detail things that I feel make a good program.

I would be interested hear any ideas you guys have.

-- Edited by RidgeRacer on Wednesday 29th of July 2009 05:36:45 PM

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1, a live dashboard with the map selection sector boxes around the perimeter,or off to the side i.e,dash showing map,tps,lambda,and have small maps that you can view all of them at the same time,but be selectable,and switchalbe.
2, an excell type spread sheet that you can load maps into to be able to compare line for line.
3.if it is a per gear application,be able to view ign,fuel,tps voltage.ect, on the same screen at the same time with the option to select any one of them and toggle back and forth to full screen.
4,resolution as close as every 100 rpm
5,click to save change on every screen to be able to save right away
i have more to come....

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I use romraider for all tuning and really like it just a few thing i would live to seen.
(1)The ability to run four primary injector instead of 8 for us turbo guys. with a dropdown box that give differnt size primary injectors which when sellected would automatically adjust the base maps to match the injector flow. i know it might be asking alot. biggrin
(2)A boost controller. maybe using the VCSV i would be will to give up the shift light..
(3) Data loggin with the ability to playback on laptop.
and make it user sellectable so we can activate or deactivate each one when needed.smile
Good to see you are still moving forward with your project RR...thumbsup.gif

-- Edited by busa2001 on Thursday 30th of July 2009 12:40:04 AM

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I am still in the process of setting up my data logger so this may not make sense but what about if you highlight a section on cylinder 1 map & increase the value by a xx%, you then have a check box option to repeat the same % increase on cylinders 2,3 & 4 maps.

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RR how long before you release the initial version for testing?

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marlin,it just dawned on me......colors on the screen...good selling point....

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stocker wrote:

marlin,it just dawned on me......colors on the screen...good selling point....




Yeah that's original  smile

 

Actually there was some discussion at some point as to what colors should be used. Some felt that blue should be used for greater fuel as richer runs cooler and red should be for lower fuel values as leaner runs hotter.

Also applying the same rational to ignition more advance should be red, less advance blue.

Opinions?

 

 



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OZK5GIXXER wrote:

I am still in the process of setting up my data logger so this may not make sense but what about if you highlight a section on cylinder 1 map & increase the value by a xx%, you then have a check box option to repeat the same % increase on cylinders 2,3 & 4 maps.



That is definitely on the list. Along that line I was thinking of a virtual trim map that is basically like a Power Commander map in that it would be all 0s on a stock map set and you would enter +/- percentage that would be applied to the maps when saved.

 



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ta daaaa,and yellow in the middle......biggrin

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virtual guages with coersponding maps...a biggie to me...look at motec,aem....nice layout to me .....smile

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busa2001 wrote:

I use romraider for all tuning and really like it just a few thing i would live to seen.
(1)The ability to run four primary injector instead of 8 for us turbo guys. with a dropdown box that give differnt size primary injectors which when sellected would automatically adjust the base maps to match the injector flow. i know it might be asking alot. biggrin
(2)A boost controller. maybe using the VCSV i would be will to give up the shift light..
(3) Data loggin with the ability to playback on laptop.
and make it user sellectable so we can activate or deactivate each one when needed.smile
Good to see you are still moving forward with your project RR...thumbsup.gif

-- Edited by busa2001 on Thursday 30th of July 2009 12:40:04 AM




On the injectors theoretically it should not be a hard thing to accomplish. I mean if you double the flow of the injectors then they only need half the on time to deliver the same fuel. Of course I'm sure the devil will be in the details.

Data logging with capture is also on the list. Also (again not an original idea) will be that during playback if you have a map open it will highlight the map cells that would be used during the rpm, tps, etc values recorded for that instant in the log.

 



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sounds like you are going to have an awesome product, can't wait to see it...smile

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live functioning gauges for all the selected parameters that you want to view,and a capture button,or recall.

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I got what you need...!
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rr,have you ever seen tuner studio for megasquirt??pretty cool....

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Some things that would be nice to have that are absent from some other tuning software applications are:

- Copy, cut and paste functions.
- Increment and scale values and ranges (like Enginuity).
- Interpolated linear blends across a range of cells.
- Import and export to/from Excel, character-delimited files and maybe even Powercommander, Bazzaz, etc.
- Advanced map editing tools like add two maps (if both maps use the same units) or multiply two maps (if one map is a % offset map). This will allow you to take input from a log file and apply it to an existing map.
- Advanced map comparison tools (overlay, side by side, difference).
- User-defined RPM and TPS denominations to reduce the amount of interpolation/extrapolation needed when importing data from Powercommander, Bazzaz, Innovate, etc.

Also, if it's possible to include functional plugins, I'd like to start with:

- Quick shifter control (adjustable for individual gear cutout times)
- Shift light control
- Pit lane speed limit control (gear vs. rpm map)
- Map switching control (maybe already available through MS0 and MS1 jumper)


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Hey Ridge Racer its Brian from California.. I ran across one of your old post..

Water Temp Maps

I was reading a thread on anothe site where someone was talking about modifying the water temp signal to the ECU to richen the mixture when they activated their nitrous system.

The nitrous shot adds more oxygen to the combustion and requires more fuel to keep the A/F ratio correct. The ECU runs the bike rich when its cold, like a choking a carb bike, and uses the water temp to determine how much fuel to add.

The water temp signal is a simple resistor to ground that changes resistance with temperature. Their idea was to use a relay to disconnect the temp sensor and substitute a resistor of a known value when they hit the NOS switch. What value resistor should they use?

I went through the software and found the following two maps





The first map confused me at first. I expected to see an increase in fuel when the bike was cold that would rapidly fall off as the bike warmed up. It turned out when I looked at the software closer that the first map corrects for the non-linearity of the temp sensor and makes it linear. The second map is the acutal fuel vs temp map.

After tracing out the internal temp sensor schematic of the ECU and using the map data I came up with a method of selecting the amount of enrichment you want.

1) On the bottom map select how much enrichment you want on the Y axis 0-70 (at this point I still don't know how much actual injector duration that translates to)

2) Go across the bottom map and find the intersection, then down to find the corresponding X axis value

3) Take that value and find it on the y axis of the top map. Go across to the intersection and down to read that x axis value (1-29)

4) Find that value in this table which shows the voltage required and the resistor needed to get it in K ohms

---Volts---K Ohms
01--0.29----0.112
02--0.45----0.178
03--0.61----0.248
04--0.76----0.324
05--0.92----0.405
06--1.07----0.493
07--1.23----0.588
08--1.39----0.691
09--1.54----0.803
10--1.70----0.927
11--1.86----1.062
12--2.01----1.212
13--2.17----1.378
14--2.32----1.564
15--2.48----1.772
16--2.64----2.008
17--2.79----2.278
18--2.95----2.589
19--3.11----2.951
20--3.26----3.378
21--3.42----3.889
22--3.57----4.512
23--3.73----5.289
24--3.89----6.284
25--4.04----7.604
26--4.20----9.439
27--4.36---12.164
28--4.51---16.632
29--4.67---25.306

See how easy

-- Edited by RidgeRacer at 17:34, 2006-12-19

Is there a way we can use the water temp sensor and swap it for a wide band o2 sensor. In this way the ECU could add fuel based on ohm information coming from the ecu.. Would this work?



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Brian Crowell


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Supra have you seen how the NOS mapping has been done with map switching ?
i believe its a much better system than using a sensor that would be slow to respond, also i think the water temp sensor has a greater influence on timing than a/f ratio (but quite prepared to be corrected ;) ) and the air temp sensor has been commonly used in the past .

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What does this have to do with map editor features?

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Thanks for responding:

I am trying to hook up a closed loop wide band oxygen sensor to function on my ZX12r. Ridge Racer hacked my zx12r ecu first.

Is there a way to have the existing software read the inputs from the oxygen sensor and then make fuel adjustments accordingly?

The Ram Air Sensor adds fuel as speed and pressure increasing, I want to replace one of the existing circuits with an oxygen sensor to make a poor mans closed loop ecu and motorcyle. If the water temp sensor can be used for nitrous then can we REPLACE the water temp sensor with an 02 sensor?

thanks,

Brian

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Brian Crowell


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Can we swap the air temp sensor with a wide band oxygen sensor?

In theory higher ambient temperatures require more fuel to prevent engine detonation. On the flip side colder air is more dense and better oxygenated.  I'm guessing just motivated to get this to work.

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Brian Crowell


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Brian, I remember you form the ZX-12 forum, but can we stop the threadjacking? This thread is supposed to be about requirements gathering for the map editor software that RR is designing.

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Oh Sorry.. Where do I post thread?

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Brian Crowell


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hi can u help ? i have a f2 sidecar with a 600 thundercat eng running k7 fuel injection .
the bhp is 120 but the ecu box is crap [rtd unit running on dos ] its hard work to dyno . im thinking of getting a k7 ecu box in place of the rtd unit ????
confuse 

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r hutchinson


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Have this thread stoped or still alive? what updates were made to romraider defs? Is the zx12r ecu with rom raider, datalog when connected?


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