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Post Info TOPIC: 02-07 gen1 boost compensated fueling proof of concept


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02-07 gen1 boost compensated fueling proof of concept


Alright everyone,i have started a new thread on this subject for the reasoning of all of us being on the same page.I had talked to rr today in depth on how this should be implemented correctly. We had talked and come to the agreence that we should leave the tps sensor alone and change the alpha-n map to speed density like i wanted to do in the first place. This should be done so that cold enrichment,start-up,acelleration enrichment...ect would stay the same.There is alot of maps and functions<20% or so that highly depends on tps values and changing them will probally cause a poor running bike,or one that does not function correctly.My thoughts on how to do this was in the right direction,BUT i want to make shure that the changes will be right,so i saked rr if he would do this for me for a fee? he said yes...in which i was happy...hell i don't work for free!!!  i would like to see this happen and he told me that he could start working on this this weekend and we should wait till monday for some feedback from him....is any one in???  i am willing to pay him for his services to get this done correctly and get this project headding in the right direction.I will pay for the first 5 hours of work for him to provide us with a useable .bin and an .xml file to edit from.Who else would help pay for him to make this happen for all of us gen1 guy's that is turboed??? I will paypal him for the first 5 hrs of his work,will anyone else help,or an i going this alone?? all questions will be answered as soon as possible on this topic,because i want to get this done very soon,as my new bike is being built......marc   biggrin

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if nobody is on-board,i will ask rr to do this exclusively for me only,i will pay...no-body thinks it should be this way?????...come on guy's i know that there are a few that wants this done......do you have a better way of getting this level of expertise done for so cheap?????...speed is not for free........smile  who is on board????? hey i don't go to macdonald's and say i am in line waiting and i want my meal for free!!!!

-- Edited by stocker on Saturday 19th of September 2009 12:22:52 AM

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I like the idea. I am a little lost on how we can convert the current tps map to a speed density map and still keep the current TPS? How can the bike be mapped fr more than +.8 bar or whatever the stock sensors will go up to? Would the IAP sensor get swapped to some other sensor as well?

Would this leave two speed density maps to tune, Current IAP map and former TPS map? Seems like it would be redundant to have both.

Seems like it might be alot of work to re-tune if the whole system is converted rather than just adding another additional fuel compensation variable or map.

Don't get me wrong Marc, not trying to pick the concept apart, just trying to understand what the end result goal is and somewhat the means to get there.



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yes,we would keep the under 10% or so the same,but when it changes to alpha-n,it would be an "speed density" map by cahanging the look up adress in the rom.RR will then make us a map in which it will use a gm 3-bar or similar sensor input to compensate "above" atmo. so the ecu will still function on start-up,warm-up and acelleration enchrichment,but when it switches to alpha-n,it will actually be speed density like everyone wants,where we will be able to change the x vs y axis with an interger,with lots of linear resoulation.....50 cells or so.......

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when tuning "our" big all motor car engines using a "big" name standalone,we tuned in alpha-n,when tuning our big turbo systems we tune in "speed density",to me it just makes sense.....in an all motor combo the engine is basically an air pump in which when all the parameters are "set"/ve changes,but to a certian extent due to the ram air effect due to the head/intake combo,except for air density/altitude...but in a turbo combo we introduce a false atmo reguardless of the conditions of the day/place,so we have to adjust more to get our a/f to our needs.am i crazy or just passionate???

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I'm all for paying for the service, and believe we will get a better system and a longer life of that system if it is less dependant on the enthusiasm of the guy doing the work and more dependant on him getting somerthing usefull out of it .
My biggest concern for Petrik's and others stuff is one day they will find another challenge and walk away , if it were more commercial at least if they moved on then he could have a system to sell , maintaining its use with other ownership and continuing the availability and support to the customers.. and giving PeriK for example (but it could be RR or anyone else) a nice start to the next project.

Whats the paypal addy and how much are people contributing. quite happy to pay a share and see this underway





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I am with you Stocker, I was just confused oh how it would be implemented. I assume it will be a 3 bar gm style sensor for commonality (although the 3 bar will "only" allow up to 30 psi). It there are reconfigurable "bins" in the table, any sensor could be used. Problem would then be with using the stock IAP tables with the new sensor.

I would reccommend using the 3 bar gm.



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What about the ram air compensation maps...could they be deleted to free up some space in the memory?

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yes,basically all that rr needs is a worksheet showing vaccume to positive and the voltage values in order to do it.So we all need to be in agreeance in which sensor that we would all use.

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probally turn them off..

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NLR wrote:
I use a 75 psi absolute sensor in all our application .

I assume the comp table for the IAP can be modified

Id leave the main fuel tables alone and rely on a comp table to fuel on boost.


In the original talk about boost fueling a year ago, Seb suggested just extending the IAP and changing th esensor compensation while leaving he remaining fuel tables alone (current alpha-n tables). Basically tuning the bike on Speed density and leaving the alpha-n there for the ride.

Can the IAP table be extended and the "switching point be eliminated or made to be >100% voltage? This would eliminate the need to tue two speed density maps (Current IAP and new Speed density map.)

Either way, Stocker and RR if you are confident that a boost fueling compensation can be robustly developed, Let me know where to throw some support for RR (Are you the "prime" stocker dealing with teh "sub" to RR?) Just don;t want too many people bombarding RR.

John
 





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from what rr had suggested is pick-up where the current iap sensor gives out at and that the secondary map will pick up from there.I really can't say that we could turn the switching point off becayse other functions may need to rely on that.I will see what rr has for us on monday or so.I asked him to do this for everyone,not only myself,but this has been a goal for me to achieve.When talking to him it makes me feel good to know that i was headding in the right direction from a development standpoint.I asked if i could pay for him to do it from his professional standpoint,since he has been an imbedded software designer for many of years,and i would feel confident about it functioning correctly.The more money the more hours that he could put in on the project.I am paying for the first 5 hours.He even said the possibly in the second phase he could do the ign maps the same.I will call him today about the pp aspect for compensation.

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sounds good to me...smile


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let's see what rr comes up with...then we can go from there......smile..i am still working on the dissambled........confuse

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I am getting anxious....need to max out the 62 lb injectors I have, then turn it to 60 psi base and max it out again....then maybe buy some 1000cc injectors... smile.gif

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yes really interested in what RR comes up with....



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let's see if rr chimes in....smile

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thanls for all the responses from the other boards, let's see whats next....biggrin

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stocker wrote:

thanls for all the responses from the other boards, let's see whats next....biggrin




Stocker; one Finnish Gen1 Turbo Busa owner is asking what kind of fee we are talking about in this case. Would you e-mail me please? jarim [at] hiekkalaatikko [dot] org.



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jarim,i am just waiting for a response from rr....

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hopefully we will hear some good news soon...smile

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I feel like we are a bunch of Pygmies or Aborgines looking up to the God that is Ridge Racer for completeness in life...all sitting around our computers waiting for "The Great One" to post.
worship.gifworship.gifworship.gifworship.gifworship.gifworship.gif
eyepopping.gif


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pc.gif

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HE,WHO BROUGHT US BOOST COMPENSATED FUELING.....clap.gifclap.gifclap.gifclap.gifclap.gif

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I looked at it his weekend and it is a little more complicated than it looks at first glance. It is still doable but I think we need to take it one step at a time.

I think step one is to integrate the 3 bar into the stock setup. That is recalibrate all the existing maps so it functions with the 3 bar the same way it does with the stock sensor. If we don't do this first and go straight to the extended fuel maps then something is going to sneak up and bite us in the ass.

So what I need to get started is a psi to voltage conversion for the 3 bar you want to use. What would even be better is if someone connected the two sensors, the stock and 3bar to a common air hose and logged the voltage of both as you drop the pressure in the air hose. I really don't need to know an exact psi = volts as much as I need to know stock volts = 3bar volts. All I would do with the psi is use it to calculate the stock to 3bar conversion. Also I'm mainly interested in psi less than 1bar at this point.

Once I have that data I can get started.

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i will have you all the data asap.

-- Edited by stocker on Tuesday 22nd of September 2009 08:02:07 PM

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I posted over on the Gen 2 topic and petrik noted that his numbers were available for a GM 3 bar.

John


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 v1.00 first release for Hayabusa gen2, includes GM3 bar sensor conversion tables
 
*/

/*
 These are the RAM variable addresses that are internal to this subroutine
*/
#define ECU_IAP *(volatile unsigned short *)      0x008042F0
#define ECU_INJVOLT *(volatile unsigned short *)     0x008042DA
#define ECU_SAP *(volatile unsigned short *)      0x008042EE
#define ECU_RPM *(volatile unsigned short *)      0x0080502E

/*
 Internal variables for this subroutine only, these are borrowed from the ecu ram area using addresses
 that are considered not having been assigned for any use.
 
 area between 00806800-00806820 is used shifter2gen.bin
 
*/
#define ramaddr           0x00806800 // This is the starting address for free ram area for user programs
// note +24dec, 0x18 is first free address
#define ECU_COV1REUSED *(volatile unsigned char *)   (ramaddr + 0x18) // +24dec would be  is first free address, before that shifter code uses the addresses
#define IAP_8bit   *(volatile unsigned char *)   (ramaddr + 0x1A)
#define LR    *(volatile unsigned char *)  (ramaddr + 0x1C)
#define BENR   *(volatile unsigned char *)  (ramaddr + 0x20)
#define killflag   *(volatile unsigned short *) (ramaddr + 16) // this is a shifter variable that we may want to use

/*
 The shift kill variables are defined here, e.g kill times. These are adjusted using ecueditor.
*/
#pragma SECTION C PARAMS //0x55800
const unsigned short const_pgmid =     100;   // program id, must match to ecueditor version to be able to load this code to ecu

const unsigned short fill_in_seros =    0;

const unsigned char sensormap[] = {                 
0x05, 0x0A, 0xFF, 0xFF, 0x00, 0x05, 0x58, 0x14, 0x00, 0x05, 0x58, 0x24, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00,  // 0x55804
// conversion for GM3bar sensor, vacuum area
// 0,   10    20    30    40   50     60    70    80   101 kPa           
0x00, 0x8, 0x10, 0x18, 0x20, 0x27, 0x30, 0x38, 0x3F, 0x50, 0xFF, 0xFF, 0xFF, 0xFF, 0xFF, 0xFF,  // 0x55814
0x00, 0x12, 0x24, 0x37, 0x49, 0x5B, 0x6E, 0x80, 0x93, 0xBA, 0xFF, 0xFF, 0xFF, 0xFF, 0xFF, 0xFF}; // 0x55824

const unsigned char boostmap[] = {       
// add to TPS fuel injection pulse, positive pressure area      
// 0,   10   20    30    40     50   70   90    101   130 kPa           
0x05, 0x0A, 0xFF, 0xFF, 0x00, 0x05, 0x58, 0x44, 0x00, 0x05, 0x58, 0x54, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00,  // 0x55834          // 0xff810
0x50, 0x58, 0x5F, 0x67, 0x6F, 0x78, 0x88, 0x98, 0xA0, 0xB8, 0xFF, 0xFF, 0xFF, 0xFF, 0xFF, 0xFF,  // 0x55844
0x00, 0x10, 0x20, 0x30, 0x40, 0x50, 0x70, 0x90, 0xA0, 0xC0, 0xFF, 0xFF, 0xFF, 0xFF, 0xFF, 0xFF}; // 0x55854

/*
 Constants
*/
#define TTT       1   /* internal const for the program */
#define FFF       0   /* internal const for the program */

/*
 This is the main programming loop. Its thrown to be executed at the end of the AD conversion loop. This way when ever
 the AD values are read then also the boostfuel value is updated. Additionally cylinder specific fuel caluclations
 needs to be changed so that the results of this calculation is included in fuel calculations.
*/
#pragma SECTION P BOOSTFUEL //0x55A00
void boostfuelmain(void)
{
 
 
/*
 Convert a 2D GM3 map to an IAP map value and store it back to ECU_IAP value.
*/


if (LR == 0)  // Allow only when not active from previous run, other interrupts seem to break an ongoing
    // AD conversion cycle causing LR to get lost.
{
IAP_8bit = (ECU_IAP >> 2) ; // lets change to 8bit
BENR = (ECU_IAP >> 2);

#pragma keyword asm on
asm(
 // push lr
 " ld24 R5, #0x80681C \n" // LR_ramvar
 " st R14, @R5 \n"   // push lr to LR_ramvar
 // Process map conversion
 " ld24 R5, #0x80681A \n" // input in variable IAP_8bit
 " ldub R5, @R5 \n"   // load zero extended byte
 " ld24 R4, #0x55804 \n"  // conversion table address
 " bl 0x3544 \n"
 " srli R0, #8 \n"
 " ld24 R5, #0x80681A \n"
 " stb R0, @R5 \n"   // store zero extended byte to var IAP_8bit
 // pop LR
 " ld24 R5, #0x80681C \n" // get LR from LR_ramvar
 " ld R14, @R5 \n"   // pop lr back to original state
 // Process boost enrichment map
 " ld24 R5, #0x806820 \n" // input in variable IAP_8bit
 " ldub R5, @R5 \n"   // load zero extended byte
 " ld24 R4, #0x55834 \n"  // conversion table address
 " bl 0x3544 \n"
 " srli R0, #8 \n"
 " ld24 R5, #0x806820 \n"
 " stb R0, @R5 \n"   // store zero extended byte to BENR
 // pop LR
 " ld24 R5, #0x80681C \n" // get LR from LR_ramvar
 " ld R14, @R5 \n"   // pop lr back to original state
 " ld24 R4, #0x0 \n"   // clear LR_ramvar to indicate that the function can be used again
 " ld24 R5, #0x80681C \n"
 " st R4, @R5 \n"  
 
);

}
ECU_IAP = (IAP_8bit  << 2);    // back to 10bit value
ECU_COV1REUSED = BENR;

/*
 Do not let the IAP sensor values exceed the limits to throw in an errorcode. BA00 is 101kPa
*/
 if (ECU_IAP > (0xBA00 >> 6))
  {
   ECU_IAP = (0xBA00 >> 6);
  }

#pragma keyword asm on
asm(
 " jmp R14 " 
);

}



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should we use a 4-bar map so those who is going to turn it up,it only has to converted once??  I know i am going to personally "positively pressurize it"..no

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think we should stick to the regular GM 3bar for simplicity sake...biggrin

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not everyone has a street bike........biggrin

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who ever said this would be simple....i have been trying for months...by myself...lets do it with seb's sensor.....smile

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stocker wrote:

not everyone has a street bike........biggrin




 hey watch it now...smile



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stocker wrote:

who ever said this would be simple....i have been trying for months...by myself...lets do it with seb's sensor.....smile



how easy is it to obtain those, what do they cost?

 



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there are a few map sensors on this page and they are pretty descent on price from what i can tell

http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/-c-36.html?osCsid=e4dcdbc965ec919aa0da42641ef2ad16


-- Edited by pinky on Tuesday 22nd of September 2009 10:28:06 PM

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no harm done d........biggrin...no evil entensions here.......smile

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http://www.ssitechnologies.com/P51_Series_LA_Pressure_Sensors_Absolute_Low_Pressure.html#50psi



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the ssi sensor is the one that i had in mind.....aww

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Any way to put in a calibration table similar to the temp sensor calibration table listed in teh current romrainder definition? Would presumably start at zero and have four or five bins to fill in for a few defined category values.

I am pretty much up for use of any reasonably priced sensor (I'd say $100 or less as some sensors can be $500 or more...), but just throwing it out there of making it configurable.

I am still under the impression that an additional, small speed density table added to the fuel calculation equation may be the easiest (truely a positive pressure boost compensation table pulsewidth added to all other calculations and constants), but I am not a programmer....

As I mentioned before, as long as it can be done, I am for whatever way RR and Stocker and any other person who has an understanding of programming and tuning sees fit. I have tuned a few bikes, but not the number of or to the level of Stocker.


John

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const unsigned char boostmap[] = {       
// add to TPS fuel injection pulse, positive pressure area      
// 0,   10   20    30    40     50   70   90    101   130 kPa           
0x05, 0x0A, 0xFF, 0xFF, 0x00, 0x05, 0x58, 0x44, 0x00, 0x05, 0x58, 0x54, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00,  // 0x55834          // 0xff810
0x50, 0x58, 0x5F, 0x67, 0x6F, 0x78, 0x88, 0x98, 0xA0, 0xB8, 0xFF, 0xFF, 0xFF, 0xFF, 0xFF, 0xFF,  // 0x55844
0x00, 0x10, 0x20, 0x30, 0x40, 0x50, 0x70, 0x90, 0xA0, 0xC0, 0xFF, 0xFF, 0xFF, 0xFF, 0xFF, 0xFF}; // 0x55854

/*


Stocker, is this the portion that defines the Gen 2 boost comp table? Not sure how to do it, but this "// add to TPS fuel injection pulse, positive pressure area" is what I was referring to, with adding it to the calculated injection pulse.

John



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-- Edited by stocker on Wednesday 23rd of September 2009 12:58:58 AM

-- Edited by stocker on Wednesday 23rd of September 2009 01:00:21 AM

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On the issue of 3 bar v 4 bar sensor, just how many exceed 30 psi on a regular basis ?? and is it worth the tradeoff in tuning resolution or can the axis be as long as we need to have reasonable resolution and pressure range ?

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I stock the ssi 5 bar sensors as its what we use with the ams-1000.

100 per sensor to any board member here...just make sure you tell me your from this board.

transfer curve info is
.5 volts= -14.7 psi
4.5 volts= 60.3 psi



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Seb,
Do you use the same sensor for your MAP for standalone engine management?

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yes

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This is the way i want to go...I will talk to rr about the resolution issue and if he sees any problems or not,then i will order one from seb and hook it and the stock iap and get the data that rr needs.....he seb,thanks for offering the sensor at a great price for us members.....smile

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man this plus the ams-1000 on my new pro-street bike....it will be different.....biggrin

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stocker wrote:

man this plus the ams-1000 on my new pro-street bike....it will be different.....biggrin



I'm still gonna cross first with this plus an AMS1000 on my little 50 trim compressor street bike....of course, it will be bracket racing and I will only be dialed an 8.30 to your 7.50....biggrin

 



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Stocker, if you have an AMS1000, just use the sensor off of it. I will be getting on in the mail on friday...could hook it to a DL32 along with stock sensor and power it with the 5v out from a DL32....

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