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Post Info TOPIC: Gen2 ECU conversion for a GEN1 for use in a Prostreet Bike


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RE: Gen2 ECU conversion for a GEN1 for use in a Prostreet Bike


John once modified i don't think there is any difference in the rotors, i had both in my hands during my conversion , tested with the gen 2 before committing to cutting the tooth off the gen 1 , and with keys aligned the pin positions looked identical.
i have found a need for tuning , runs rough from 3 k rpm free revving, i am assuming as i have std gen 1 injectors on primary that it will need some time setting up the iap and tps for injector size and different response time

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ANRKY wrote:

Has anyone got both the gen1 & 2 wiring scematics to make a comparison before I charge ahead and start cutting wires.

Hmm, can the pins be pushed out of the gen2 plug & inserted in to the gen1 plug ?
Gona give that a go wednesday nite

Cheers Al.

 Pins will not interchange. Shop manuals with wiring schematics can be found here:

http://www.servicemanualsgsxr.com/

 

John



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Thanks John
Since I can't get access to new pins to solder on it looks like I'm going to have to gouge the old ones off & reuse them.
Is this How you did it Greg or did you splice in somewhere else.

Al.

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Ha looking back along the loom it's not the only place that'll need some remedial attention eh !.

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the gix loom had a junction block at the head stem, just cut and soldered/heatshrink from there
Yes there are other terminals that need changing , injectors, fuel pump can be repinned,regulator use the gen 2 if its has the recall .

I am still searching for the right combo to get the correct sender on my gix, and now have a 07 gix 1000 cam cover on its way... it looks very much like the 07 gix 1k sender will bolt straight onto the busa gen 1 cover, and my 01 gix , Great news when it can be confirmed , will make for a simple conversion...

There was a comment made about the total interchangability between covers and senders that i did not fully understand at the time as the 750 gix and gen 2 busa senders i had were very different fit to the gen 1 style

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ANRKY, I was referring to the ECU pins, not necessarily the gauge pins. Do you need a connector for the gauges? I probably have one that I can cut off and leave you a pigtail, GEN1 or GEN2?

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Thanks John

No need to worrie I have  full  I & II harnesses including the guage plugs so should be able to cut & spilce or just push in pins where I can.

Appreciate the offer though.

Cheers Al.



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450HP today. I think I will leave it at that for now.

Also might have a boost leak somewhere on the intake. Possibly throttle body to head boots.

Need to tune it a bit better at the track.

Also need to sit down and think about ways to make turbo tuning easier with EE2. Data logging was intermittent, might need to make a new interface. Part of the problem was some sort of interference happening to the signal for the O2 to cause what appears to be a voltage offset. Must be something on the bike causing it.

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Another step closer :)

Minor win here too, the 07 gix cam sensor arrived , bolts straight into the busa gen 1 cover, and only .015" shorter installed height
so for me the conversions on the earlier bikes will go much easier

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OK guys need some help here i need to do the swap but i am a litle bit confused so lets take it from the start.

I will need gen2 ecu with harness and sensors or i can just use gen 1 harness and sensors.

remove 1 tooth from the rotor and change the rocker cover and sensor from gen2.

i also have gen2 cams can i install them and not modify the pin?

and one last thing i have gen2 ecu connectors if i remove the pins from gen1 connectors will they fit at the gen2 connectors?

the bike is a 550hp pro stock gen1 turbo busa so i don't need the gauge clusters.

Any help will be apreciated thanks!

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Pins will not interchange. I believe you may be better suited to start with a Gen2 harness and hack out the items that you don't need. Then again, all you really need to do is add a wire to the cam sensor and chance the plug, along with the ECU plug swap. There are also some differences int eh starter button and kill switch connectors on a gen2.

Keep in mind, you can only go up to ~31psi or so with the current firmware for ECU editor. My bike appeared to have a boost leak on the intake side as noted and wouldn't make over ~26psi or so even with the gate locked closed. To make big power, non intercooled, the 5 bar sensor implementation will need to be completed.

Where are you from? Where do you race? By pro stock do you mean setup like a funnybike with a smaller tire?

John

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Maj750 wrote:

Another step closer :)

Minor win here too, the 07 gix cam sensor arrived , bolts straight into the busa gen 1 cover, and only .015" shorter installed height
so for me the conversions on the earlier bikes will go much easier


 

 

So the 07 gsxr cam sensor is a 3 wire and bolts right in? That woudl be ideal since no cam offset pin would be needed. (or maybe it still would, I don't know...need to put a scope on it)



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I would have to assume considering the pin changes needed to run gen 1 cams in gen 2 etc ,that the relative sensor position is very similar and any differences are just in the pin position on the cam , scope would confirm pretty quickly

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Great work John.

Very interested to see how she performs as the season rolls



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ok this is the bike i am from Greece so as u guys say i can also use gixxer k7 cam sensor without changing the rocker cover and John yes i know about the map sensor my street bike is a gen2 turbo bike with 370hp tune only with editor.

Jim

 

 

pro stock bike



-- Edited by Matador on Tuesday 24th of May 2011 08:37:56 AM

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Very nice bike :)  what times are you running ??

Yes the gix sensor bolts straight on but i think you would need the offset cam pin if you have gen 1 cams in there , just the same as if you put gen 1 cams in a gen 2

 



-- Edited by Maj750 on Tuesday 24th of May 2011 09:55:59 PM

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I have noticed that flashing takes quite a long time with changes to the boost fuel module, even after the initial flash. Every flash started with a full erase, rather than just changing the modified portions as in a fuel map change.

While this does force cooling time between pulls, it is cumbersome to tune low boost levels where cooling time between pulls is not as critical.

Definitely need to determine what needs to be done and a path forward to the 5 bar sensor implementation, otherwise, I will need to put an intercooler on soon in order to keep the boost to "low", 30psi or less levels.

 

Definately a cool looking setup Matador!



-- Edited by sportbikeryder on Wednesday 25th of May 2011 02:32:00 AM

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Thanks john i have a question what do you think is the best setup use of gen1 cams with ofset pin or gen2 cams? Gen1 has less overlap but Gen2 also works nice with a turbo setup. Also is there any working solution with stps,stva error code does this affect anything if i just ignore that?



-- Edited by Matador on Wednesday 25th of May 2011 09:35:54 AM

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I have stock gen1 cams in mine. I have not used the gen2 cams.

Mine has the STVA STPS error but it doesn;t appear to cause any problems. You will not be able to use the error light option of EE2, but as long as you check the ECU often, you should be fine



-- Edited by sportbikeryder on Wednesday 25th of May 2011 01:59:04 PM

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I have some electrical things to tidy up tomorrow, and some mechanical items to finish (Put plenum abd tank back on, instal new clutch, change oil, rear wheel, and go over everything for safety, then it is off to the track for the weekend. Hopefully all goes well.

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Good luck for weekend.

Hope all goes better than expected



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Well, the bike works. There is a strange sort or soft rev limiter at about 5500 rpm when free revving. Not sure what it is. It will rev through it, but it is kind of strange. so far, best ET was only an 8.38, off the gas at the 1000ft, and best mph was 173, without having much power in it up top.

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Mapping due to the lack of stv ??
8.38 and brought home alive is a good first run , sort it out turn it up and go again :)

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The 8.38 was only at 160mph. That was 142 in the 1/8th I believe. I also accidentally bumped the button shifted into 2nd about 10 ft out (had the button covered because I just made the gearing deeper and added in some "antilag"..still went 1.400 60 ft).

I don't think the "rev limiter" at 5500 is a mapping thing. could be but it seems almost like a cam sensor error or something.

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 It could be where your turbo starts changing the intake vacuum to pressure. Maybe, your IAP fuel map needs adjusted in the "0" range where the atmosphere and intake are close to the same.

 

Mark



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Turned up the boost a bit and managed 144mph in the 1/8th and 181 in the 1/4. Something is causing the bike to randomly cut out (I am guessing electrical) while riding ont the track on occasion. May not be ecu related but rather an intermittent kill switch faulty due to a possible poor wire or connection. The best ET so far is only 8.25

This weekend was the first time I actually moved the bike. Shifter was flashed at the track and tested. The shifter worked flawlessly all weekend. The bike has a total of 8 passes on it since I converted the entire ECU / wiring / fuel system. The best ET is only 8.25, but that should com around with some clutch, boost controller, and additional tuning work.

Lack of a Shift / launch light is a burden which I overcame by re-installing the gauges and adding an external window switch to run an LED for the shift light.

There are some items that I have noticed to be a bit cumbersome as well when attempting to do some advanced tuning, namely setting up an "anti-lag" in the fuel and ignition maps. I was able to use a spreadsheet to do the math outside of EE2 and use copy/paste to make it work.

Ignition retard based on manifold pressure would allow some more timing down low. A higher range IAP sensor would aid performance immensely for non-intercooled applications.

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hey there john,

last year my gen 2 turbo was also intermittenly cutting out, usually like in 3rd gear full boost, like someone shut the key off, completely dead engine, then 1/2 second later or so it came back. i wonder if related?

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TOS or sidestand Greg ?

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smithabusa wrote:

hey there john,

last year my gen 2 turbo was also intermittenly cutting out, usually like in 3rd gear full boost, like someone shut the key off, completely dead engine, then 1/2 second later or so it came back. i wonder if related?


 Did you figure out what it was or did it just go away?



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didn't figure it out, didn't ride the bike much past august due to work and family things going on. not the tos or sidestand i dont think, i bypassed both at one time

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Hi Guys

John did you use gen 2 switch block assmblies ?
I'm working my way down the loom swaping all that needs swaping but there are too many wires in both the switch block connectors.

Greg Am I going to have to keep my TOS (gen 1) if I want to use the anti wheelie software ?
I've just bridged the sidestand out.

Cheers Al

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I used gen 1 controls, but they are far from a direct swap. I actually rewired the switches and harness to use the highbeam switch as a manual fan switch, adn the flash to pass switch to control the "scramble" feature on my AMS1000 boost controller.

What items / features do you need for your car ANRKY? Does it still have turn signals, horn, hi-lo lights, etc?

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Got to have everything ,it's still street legal.
I'm trying to maintain the switch opperation as standard otherwise the warrent of fitness tester will fail me on the next visit.
$200 fine & 20 demerits is to much of a risk for non compliance.

Looks like gen2 switch gear's the go eh.

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I have some electrical gremlins to try to work out.

was testing yesterday at MIR for the MIROCK race and only made 2 passes all day, then packed up and headed home this morning.

Bike is cutting off mid track, almost as if the kill switch was being flipped on and off. There are no safety switched (kickstand or TOS) on the bike. Bar mounted kill and safety lanyard do not appear to have any issues form teh "strat bike and grab the wires and twist, shake, and pull them" test.

Initially seemed to only begin to happen as soon as the bike was shifted into 3rd gear. I tried another GPS, but no change. noticed it was idling erratically and sort of cutting out at idle on the final test drove around the track last night on my way up to get another testing tech card (I thought the GPS solved the problem, but it acted up again just as I was nearing the tower to get another tech card to try it on the track)


Still has the sort of weird "Limiter at around 5500 rpm as well.

No codes other than the STVA and STPS (which were present during previous passes without issue)

The data stream does not seem to have any obvious issues.

I am kind of stumped on this one. It I definitely electrical as I purposely focused on the tach during the last test pass and watched the needle jump around erratically as it was cutting out. I had a spare ECU with me but did not think to flash it and give it a try.

Might be time to either retire or go to a standalone.

John

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If/When you go to a standalone, will you sell the 1st gen computer and wire harness and other bits?
I will be needing it for my ZG14 engine as the Kawi stuff isn't something anyone messes with yet.
Tanx
Greg


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Had the bike on the dyno today and was able to find a new reason for use of a 5 bar sensor for the manifold pressure, to be able to put in a really high pulsewidth for the max pressure in case of an overboost.... After a 430-ish HP pull that was fairly rich, the wastegate signal hose came off on the next pull, causing the boost to go to very high pressure. Fuel compensation ran out and went lean (a bit over 14:1) on the non intercooled setup. Ended up hurting the motor. It still made a bit over 480 hp before the power dropped off. All of this took a whopping 0.6 seconds to occur, somewhere around 10,000 rpm on up. Not sure on the damage, but it doesn't sound good and will almost certainly have to start opening boxes of spare heads and / or cylinders that are in the basement.

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Junk..... Parking this pig for the year.

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what happened, more problems?

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Pulled the motor from the dyno incident, freshened the top end, put it back in and noticed a knocking noise in the motor (somewhere). Pulled it back out Friday and pulled the bottom end apart and found nothing wrong at all. Put it all back in and fired it up and it is still knocking somewhere (not that I really expected it to be different since I didn't do anything to it). Was hoping to take it to MIR for the MIROCK race, but that isn't happening.

I've made ~6 passes on the bike all year.



Maybe next year.....

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Just some thing to try and something I had a hard time finding.  Try removeing the clutch basket and fireing it up.  Just to eliminat it as the cause of the knocking. 

Once I had a friend that could not find the knock after taking it apart several times.  He spun a rod bearing and after the fix it still knocked.  a piece of metal got in the drive/clutch basket gear and messed up one of the teeth on the crank.  no matter what basket he put in still same problem.  put a different crank in and problem gone.

Same guy...  had a knock another time.  removed the clutch basket and knock gone. put another clutch basket in and knock gone.  rivets holding drive gear to basket were broke.



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I thought about swapping the basket, maybe I will try that tonight....although I did open the oil cam and put a stethoscope IN the clutch cover and didn't sound like the noise was in that area. I thought of the area and extensively looked at the crank gear and clutch gear when I had it apart.

Starting without a basket is not really an option as there would be no oil pump drive.

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If there is a problem with the basket gear or crank to should be visible, had it before with car gear drive cams , look for a minor mark on the tip of a gear tooth , it will create a hi spot on the face , blue the surface to confirm , crank could be fixed in place with a wetstone if your carefull and using the bearing blue
it will sound a little like a cracked piston, noisier as the motor accellerates and quieter as it decellerates as you load and unload the damaged side of the gear tooth
Hope you find it , after following the conversion it would be like having the last page of a book removed if you stopped now ;)

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I don't think it is the clutch or gear. I just ran the bike with the clutch cover off AND the entire clutch out of the bike (basket and hub only). Surprisingly, no oil comes out of the bike when running it like that, only a very small amount if it is revved. It all stays nicely contained within the quick access cover.

After another go with the stethoscope, I believe it is related to an exhaust valve for #1 cylinder. The sound is most prominent on front left the valve cover bolt and can be heard on #1 cylinder exhaust pipe on the header, and not the others.

If I were about to make a trip across the world for speedweek, I'd pull the motor again and either fix or replace the head, and race on friday, but I don't think that is in the cards. I think I am just going ot put the bike back on the lift and possibly go to the track bikeless and help with my buddy's bike.



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Checked a shim has not dislodged ?

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has anybody confirmed the gen1 and gen 2 rotor assys are exactly the same once you remove a teeth of the gen 1 thanks!  is the stator cover the same on gen 1 and 2?



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Startig to put the bike back together....

 

Started with this last night:

431238_186677128109788_123176064459895_280550_1376245225_n.jpg

 

Ended up with this:

429964_186684388109062_123176064459895_280561_278667359_n.jpg



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definitely a frame up rebuild, post some more pics as you progress, be good to see it come together ;)

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John i found lately that the gen 1 GPS is not good enough for the gen 2 ecu and you need an accurate gps for doing boost control or nos . a gen 2 gps fixed the problems
now i just need to buy another 3 :(

Good to see the bike underway again :)

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Maj750 wrote:

John i found lately that the gen 1 GPS is not good enough for the gen 2 ecu and you need an accurate gps for doing boost control or nos . a gen 2 gps fixed the problems
now i just need to buy another 3 :(

Good to see the bike underway again :)


 What was the issue with it?

Mine seems to read the gears on the data screen.  I don't really Need a GPS for my application as I use an AMS 1000 boost controller and only need to know when the clutch is in. That said, perhaps I should eliminate the GPS signal all together with a fixed resistor. Not sure if it makes much difference form mine.  



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2 gen 1 to 2 busa conversions now are showing gears incorrectly or flicking in and out of gear,both on dash and datascreen, and more obvious in the logs not so critical on the bike with one set of injectors but the bike with secondarys dropped the secondary injector when getting no or out of range gear signal
but both are needing the gear based boost control
fixed resistor sorted mine out while tuning , but have new gps for the long term , not sure what the incorrect reading does to other maps or tables , safer to use a resistor i would think , if you don't need the signal

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