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Post Info TOPIC: Gen2 ECU conversion for a GEN1 for use in a Prostreet Bike


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Gen2 ECU conversion for a GEN1 for use in a Prostreet Bike



There is a stock GEN2 ecu hiding in there...fits pretty well in the area where the stock dash was...with a little coaxing from my tig welder.



-- Edited by sportbikeryder on Wednesday 21st of March 2012 03:19:39 AM

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have ypu tested the gps sensor? gotr my bike started yesterday after finally finisshing my gen 1 to gen2 electronics / head swap everything is fine, but the gps sensor is acting up sometimes it says second gear when im in first sometimes in fifth gear it doesent write anyting in the dash lol. i checked and its a different part number for gen 1 and gen 2.



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Gen 2 left and gen 1 right

Replace it with the later one , faulty gps caused me nothing but trouble

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Do they bolt up interchangeably Greg?


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i have not fitted this one yet, but one of the bikes i converted , the owner has changed it , just uses the pin recess to drive the rotating assembly ,

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That's what I thought. Looks like the same sensor housing as the GSXR's with the external sensors. They don't have the seal on the leads, but if the resistance is the same, they should work.



-- Edited by sportbikeryder on Sunday 8th of April 2012 01:15:08 PM

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yes looks to bolt up right on. the cam,bearing, are the same part numbers. only difference between the sensors is the new one has the pin incorporated in it to drive the rotating assy instead of the old one that had a spring loaded pin in the cam.

maj750 what kind of troubles did it cause you? i ordered a sensor thru ebay yesterday night, but it wont be here before 2 weeks... gotta ride my bike until...gotta break in my new motor and start mapping it, im leaving for deals gap may 5th...its an 18 hour drive from here..time is running out gotta ride this thing now lol, thanks!



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Turbo, Maj had some issues with teh secondary injectors not operating if the ECU did not see a clean GPS or clutch signal.
It seems the secondaries don;t operate if there are certain trouble codes present. Probably a factory safeguard, however it will likely cook a turbo motor if it happens.

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If the gps is not working properly put a tre on and go without gear based functions if it ever reads 0 or - you loose secondary injector function , I am in the back blocks here and my dealer still could overnite a gps
busa has the seal , ignor the gen 1 wiring in my pic, much modified gps for gear based boost control when i was using an e-boost

Turbor what is your setup, may have a starter map if your anyway close to my std pri/650 sec,gt35r intercooled with gen 2 cams

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Im n/a... my motor is in a trex...so no turbo as they are very traction limited...that was one of the reasons for switching to gen 2 electronics.so i could use and play with the traction control feature of ee! I could sure use a starter map to save me some time as i went for another smalll ride todah and the starter map i used i way too ritch.. my setup is 1441 motor 13.25 to 1 comp 414/385 cams carp ported head akro exhaust..i used the map for 1441 posted on gregs site as a base map.

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probably close enough to work with, just don't autotune if its breaking down, cover that area manually

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Yeah ill get it figured out....fiddled enoug with ee before on my gen 1 setup....so i know pretty mutch what it wants...are the values the same in ee for gen 1 and gen 2? If so ill just copy the values from my map i made in ee before i did the gen 2 electronics swap. That map will be really really close!

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Don't think there is any real relationship between them , and different injector sizes etc will throw it out a long way
pulling 10% from the entire table for every 1 a/f number change should get you in the ball park pretty quickly
only thing to watch there is the smaller numbers do not change with the 5% keys and need to be done as similar number groups making single number changes 



-- Edited by Maj750 on Monday 9th of April 2012 07:14:24 AM

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I know this is a strange question but i am running Hayabusa editor on my 06 750 would you guy know if it is the gen 1 sensor or the gen 2 sensor?

I could remove it or look at the part number but maybe one of you has a clue.



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Home Built 06 Gsx-r 750 w/ Disco Potato .60 A/r 6.5lbs Pump gas 100% stock motor 211.54 rwhp...... going for 275 on E85 with ECU editor

Oh make it 237rwhp and 97lbs on E-85 100% stock motor 8lbs of boost. Thanks WIN Racing



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maj750, i looked and read..cant find an answer, maybe you can help me... i got the loging to work, logged a run, saved it an can see it. nom my question is how can i change the target afr? everytime i try to change the 12.8 in the tps map and press enter it reverts back to 12.8... i doesent want to accept changes.... i want to tune leaner than 12.8 in the tps area under 50% thanks!

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nevermind i found my error i was writing 13.5 instead of 13,5 thats was the problem...ok now that leads to another question is there a way to change many target afr cells at the same time...now it only changes the last cell i highlight even tho i highlight 30.  and also does the fast baud rate work with the gregs smith standard programming interface?



-- Edited by turbor on Monday 9th of April 2012 07:43:18 PM

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sportbikeryder wrote:

Turbo, Maj had some issues with teh secondary injectors not operating if the ECU did not see a clean GPS or clutch signal.
It seems the secondaries don;t operate if there are certain trouble codes present. Probably a factory safeguard, however it will likely cook a turbo motor if it happens.


 I answered my GPS question. I have a older style I believe. Were you guys getting a gear position in the datalogging section? to the right of the tables. Did your dash have the correct Gear position?

I am thinking about ordering a gen2 GPS but am using the 07-08 1000 ecu. Any suggestions. Were the secondary injectors working or not at all?



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Home Built 06 Gsx-r 750 w/ Disco Potato .60 A/r 6.5lbs Pump gas 100% stock motor 211.54 rwhp...... going for 275 on E85 with ECU editor

Oh make it 237rwhp and 97lbs on E-85 100% stock motor 8lbs of boost. Thanks WIN Racing



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gen 2 type sensor i think , check with an online fiche for the change of part number .

Change a few then cut and paste them, click on the first in next sequence to paste , same click on first applies to other tables too

Justin or one of the other computer guys could answer about baud rates as i would only be guessing

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takes me too long to type a response ;)
secondary injectors work when there is a gear position showing , its only when the signal is out of range it defaults to 0 gear and shuts off the secondarys

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well the baud rate works i flased with the checkmark on an whent for a ride while the rain stopped briefly lol...it works! ok ill try the cut and paste again by changing one and pasting it after. Also why is there more logged cells right after you click stop logging than when you clear the screen and reload the log file? i got an fi light while on the highway... when i got on the exit and pressed the clutch in it shut down... i restarded it without cycling the key and it fired right up without the fi...would be cool if the code would have logged lol... wonder if its related to having the logger on while riding? if i would have been smart i would have pulled over and switched to the engine date key..i could have seen the code..didnt think of it when it happened...darn

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Maj750 wrote:

takes me too long to type a response ;)
secondary injectors work when there is a gear position showing , its only when the signal is out of range it defaults to 0 gear and shuts off the secondarys


 While data logging is one of the injector"counts" the secondary and one the primary?

Also were all of your ECU conversions done to bikes that were single injector bikes? Ie gen 1 busa or 05 and earlier gsxrs.

Is there any indication while datalogging that the injectors cut out besides a nasty A/F reading?

FYI my bike came stock with duel injectors. confuse

Thank You in advance and for your previous awnser.



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Home Built 06 Gsx-r 750 w/ Disco Potato .60 A/r 6.5lbs Pump gas 100% stock motor 211.54 rwhp...... going for 275 on E85 with ECU editor

Oh make it 237rwhp and 97lbs on E-85 100% stock motor 8lbs of boost. Thanks WIN Racing



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Would you say it is highly recommended to buy one before I go for tuning on thursday? Just in case, he will be tuning with the boost cylinode and I dont want to put a TRE on.

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Home Built 06 Gsx-r 750 w/ Disco Potato .60 A/r 6.5lbs Pump gas 100% stock motor 211.54 rwhp...... going for 275 on E85 with ECU editor

Oh make it 237rwhp and 97lbs on E-85 100% stock motor 8lbs of boost. Thanks WIN Racing



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Had not noticed a change in logged cells
Did you loose battery power ?? thought a logged fault would stay active untill the key was cycled ?? a sds tool could still retrieve the fault


The injector counts i believe are one lot in raw form and the other the calculated farm as you read it in the table
I was using my aem logger to compare pri and sec injectors and see how the intercooler was performing both temps and pressure before and after ic
Doubleing up logging let me look at lots of things while mapping with the EE
I was logging the DC to see the problem, but the first indication was running out of DC at only 6 psi at hi rpm, and at 8 psi at lower rpm
all bikes converted are originally single injector models , 3 now still single injector , 2 blown, 1 NA and 2 with dual injectors
If your getting a stable gear position reading you may not need to update it, i think some of my problems have been an existing gps issue that was not noticed untill i have a gear indicator to make it obvious , bring a tre as a backup ..you can map it through fine with only one gear reading , and setup your gear based stuff later

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Log Time RPM TPS IAP HO2 HO2 Wideband IGN STP GEAR CLUTCH NT
00:00.1 920 62 36 75 302 46 28 0 Out TRUE
00:00.3 1030 61 34 70 282 46 28 0 Out TRUE
00:00.4 1030 61 34 73 292 46 28 0 Out TRUE


BOOST IP AP CLT IAT BATT PAIR FUEL1 FUEL2 FUEL3 FUEL4
61 147 183 158 78 163 0 1375 1399 1384 1403
62 149 183 158 78 165 0 1372 1407 1364 1406
61 149 183 158 78 164 0 1324 1326 1361 1419

HOX_ON ECU_COV1 IAP_8bit PRESSURE ECU_AN15 DUTY TARGET_BOOST OVERBOOST GEAR_IGN_RETARD BOOST_IGN_RETARD TOTAL_IGN_RETARD PRIMARY_INJ SECONDARY_INJ New Data Rate %
FALSE 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 100
FALSE 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 100
FALSE 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 100


I dont really know where to post this but this thread seemed active. I under stand the basic but am confused about the calculation for things like boost, Fuel ( is their a seperating between primary and secondary. Are you able to see the loss of secondary injector in the excell format?
In the Ecu datalogging screen to the right there are two injector values. which is which what do they stand for? These were the first 3 lines from some dataloggin I did.

Another question in the advanced screen if you enlarge it their is a secondary injector size option and i believe A CV option. Does this calculate a change in injector size?

Also what do I click on or adjust to get the best, fastest logs?

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Home Built 06 Gsx-r 750 w/ Disco Potato .60 A/r 6.5lbs Pump gas 100% stock motor 211.54 rwhp...... going for 275 on E85 with ECU editor

Oh make it 237rwhp and 97lbs on E-85 100% stock motor 8lbs of boost. Thanks WIN Racing



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May be clogging up the thread for anyone wanting to do the gen1-2 conversion

the injector numbers above is a total, the inj balance table sets the way its reached
The 4 injector values above are the values for each cylinder
i had very high numbers in these cells when the secondarys were not functioning, 23000 or so
lost track of my log or i would add an example

The injector size option was not functioning properly, i ended up changing the tps tables to compensate for the 650cc secondary injectors only where the secondary injectors started to operate
and re did the injector balance table so it was easier to calculate the changes
My steps were too abrupt and i have an a/f lean spike in transition on the busa, need to smooth the secondary balance table more , its like it compensates for the injector slightly before it turns it on



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Can anyone confirm the need for use of an offset cam pin with a GEN 1 busa valve cover and GSXR cam sensor? I am getting ready to put the scope on the crank and cam sensors to see where they are. Can't get this pig to run.

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Looks like the GEN1 cover, gsxr sensor, and offset pin should be good to go. Off to look farther to see what the issue is...

http://ecuhacking.activeboard.com/t41300191/06-gix-loom-for-08-busa-ecu/

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I have the converted gen 1 back, 630cc single inj, strobing once warm in the iap range to 5500rpm free revving and idle . std cams and pins, ???

thought it was the low imp injectors and resistor pack , came fitted with the injectors and i used a nissan resistor pack to be able to use them, but now fitted hi imp injectors and still have issues ,
tuning most of it out but taking a long time , and wondering if i should be fitting the cam pin or gen 2 cams .no problems revving to the limiter at the moment
also as i did not build this motor i have no idea what was done with cam timing



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Still won't run. Checked everything. Every component sets a code if disconnected, and code goes away when re-connected.

Doesn't appear to be injecting any fuel. injectors spray if triggered externally. That said, the engine still doesn't run, even with the fuel prime sprayed.

Spark strong on every cylinder. All sensors responding as expected on the engine data screen.



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Going to go out and put teh GEN2 cover and sensor on and try 1 more time. Stay tuned...

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No difference with teh GEN2 cover and sensor.

I even dipped a paper towel into the gas and took it out and lit it just to make sure it was gas...burned the same as a dip from the lawnmower tank.

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Were you doing anything weird with injector compensation in you're e ecu? Have you tried a stock map sensor and stockfile ?

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100% primaries for injector balance, no compensation (that was Gregg Watters)

I did not put a stock sensor on, but I did check the calculated output in logging, and it is performing exactly as expected, and exactly the same as the SAP sensor (well, the same in vacuum anyway).

Checked point to point on all circuits, even went through and disconnected sensors and injectors one at a time, and got a fault code for each action that went away when reconnected.

Unbolted the cam sensor and started lifting it out bit by bit, and it would throw a code at about .100" out of the hole, then go away when lowered.

Pulled the crank sensor connector while cranking, got teh code, then reconnected and it went away.

I even pulled a junk, gooped up used spark plug from teh junk pile, pulled a coil, grounded teh base of the plug, and it fired like the 4th of July.

Unplugged the injectors, and put a pigtail on each one and applied 12v with the fuel pump on (and rail at 43psi) to shoot a shot of fuel in each cylinder. Tried cranking and not even a pop. Even if teh cams were completely off and timing was completely off, it should at least backfire or pop, or kick back....nothing.

Could try fresh gas tomorrow, but I am not going to, as I will not have enough time to get the bike completed within reason even if it was the fuel at this point.

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With a good spark and fuel in the cyl you would expect at least a kick of some sort , i often throw a cap of fuel in some of the stationary motors here if there sitting for a while , gives them 1-2 secs running , twice will usually get enough fuel pumped into the carb to continue running

How much change in the setup is there from last time , you said you had 100% pri, what was the previous ?? is it possible the DC is so small the injector is not opening ?

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To my knowledge, everything is the same as last year. The only thing different is I had to flash it as a "gen" ecu. The ECU from last year set an interlock code (because I did not put a resistor in). Code went away when flashed as "gen".

I don't get it either. I tried the fuel in the TB's and still no pop, kick, smoke, etc.

I guess I could put a resistor in and try it as 'US' ecu rather than 'gen'.

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Put the resistor in and check your battery it MUST be fully charged. It seems like an ignition lock issue to me, do u have any FI code? check it with debug mode.

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I had an ignition lock code prior to reflashing to 'gen' ecu type, then the code went away.
Injector voltage reading in the ecu stream is over 11V while cranking when the battery is fresh.

Anyone know if the fuel pump prime signal will be send if the ignition lock is active? I do have a prime signal, and the pump runs during cranking (and maintains rail pressure to a measured 42-43psi)

The thing that get me is that the ignition IS firing (and quite strong I might add).

Maybe I'll pull the big batter out of my truck and try it SHould be able to crank it for hours without kiling that one.

Just a note, even with extended cranking attempts, the started power feed , main power feed, adn ground were all still room temperature to the touch (which is a good thing)

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Make it us and use the resistor hope u find it

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Both you and GSXR boy having a similar problem and both using gen ecu type ??

What else is turned on or off ?? TOS ? shifter ?



-- Edited by Maj750 on Monday 23rd of April 2012 08:38:11 PM

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TOS is off, I tried it with and without the shifter active (even unplugged the pressure switch I had to activate the DMS input)

It might be the ECU lock. If I get time, I may go out and try putting a resistor on I think it is pin 16 (might have to look that one over on the schematic) rather than giving it full signal.

Even if it fired right up, I seriously don't think I will even try to make it to the race this weekend (at least not with the bike). Too many things still need to be completed that should not be rushed. Being a 1 man show without checks and balances leaves too much open for error if rushed when you are running 190mph or thereabouts in a 1/4 mile. Sometimes I think it is best to just take a breath and enjoy the view. This is one of those times...

Hhad about 8-10 inches of snow today at work (not much at home)



-- Edited by sportbikeryder on Monday 23rd of April 2012 11:04:00 PM

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Well, I still can't say what the problem is, but I can say that it does not appear to be related to teh ignition lock system.

I reflashed the .bin from last year (when i still had a stock ignition) and the pump woudl not prime when the system was powered. I put the resistance in and the pump primed as expected. Engine acted exactly the same upon cranking.

Without being sure (because I don;t have a running engine), I am fairly confident that the 'gen' setting is functioning as expected.

On one hand I am kind of glad, because I woudl have been out there until I left or work in the morning still trying to make the race. Now I am officially officially not going to finish it in time Just wish I knew why it wouldn't run.

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What about throwing the old loom over it and seeing if it runs , just incase you have something ass about in the new one ??

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Thought I replied to the old loom idea already, guess it didn;t go through. The old loom swap, while still possible, is a bit impractical due to relocating of some items along with a bit of scavenging (even though I intended to preserve it at first...)

Below is is the cam / crank scope reading. Looks very similar to last years initial cranking signals as well as the signals of the running bike. This double checks that the intake cam timing is in check. There is a chance it could be a half a degree too retarded I suppose (could have the trailing edge of the cam slightly more to the "left"), but past experience shows this to e a running (and ~12,000 pm running) configuration, unless it is just a hair too much.


I don't think narrowing the Brock offset pin a bit would be a bad idea.

 



-- Edited by sportbikeryder on Wednesday 2nd of May 2012 02:27:28 AM



-- Edited by sportbikeryder on Wednesday 2nd of May 2012 02:28:30 AM

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SBR what osocyscope ap is that



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Home Built 06 Gsx-r 750 w/ Disco Potato .60 A/r 6.5lbs Pump gas 100% stock motor 211.54 rwhp...... going for 275 on E85 with ECU editor

Oh make it 237rwhp and 97lbs on E-85 100% stock motor 8lbs of boost. Thanks WIN Racing



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The scope is not just software, it is a Hantek DSO-2090 usb scope. It is an external hardware box that has USB connectvity adn uses the software on the computer. It works well, no real complaints. Petri uses an item from Parallax (also USB) that seems to have a bit more real time display of the wave conditions.

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I brought one of the cheap online scopes, gets a good signal , dual pickup functions fine but the software is crap , cannot zoom in , so i have all the info i need but unreadable :(

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Maj750 wrote:

I brought one of the cheap online scopes, gets a good signal , dual pickup functions fine but the software is crap , cannot zoom in , so i have all the info i need but unreadable :(


 There are better ones than the one I have, but it seems to suit me just fine. Heck, I'll send you mine since I apparently don't even need a scope...



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sportbikeryder wrote:
Maj750 wrote:

I brought one of the cheap online scopes, gets a good signal , dual pickup functions fine but the software is crap , cannot zoom in , so i have all the info i need but unreadable :(


 There are better ones than the one I have, but it seems to suit me just fine. Heck, I'll send you mine since I apparently don't even need a scope...


John, I Have been were Your at B4 Buddy......... I KNOW how Frustrating things can get! Hang there Brother, Step Back Take a Very Deep Breath, and Start Back at "A" & Work through to "Z". Go back to all the little Stupid Stuff(With Air, Spark, & Fuel it Has to be Something Minor..... I would Think?), as these Small little item's usually end up biting you in the Ass! 

Good Luck & I hope you get Her Figured out Soon. smile



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Cam trigger relationship as shown in the scope above is just a hair too far to function.

I removed the woodruff key on the rotor and offset it a few degrees and the bike actually fired!

After a small personal celebration that to anyone looking on would appear to be a sign of my need to go to the loony bin, I unhooked the battery and closed up the garage.

I will either remove the offset cam pin and grind a bit off of the trailing edge to get the cam signal into an acceptable position, or just move the intake cam ~ 2 degrees or so. I'll take a scope reading first to see where it is.

Filled the garage up with oil smoke pretty quickly (I had been cranking it while on a rear stand, with oil building up in the exhaust.).

I only let it run once and revved it one time. Didn't want the rotor to move on the crank. That's all I needed to confirm it anyway.

Might be some higher offset cam pins being made in my future...If I do, I'll try to get a few made and shoot at least 1 off to you as well Maj.

John



-- Edited by sportbikeryder on Sunday 6th of May 2012 02:25:12 AM

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I will put an order in for several pins for the the 750's John, they definitely need the modified pins

but my busa is running gen 2 cams running very smooth , and the other i'm working on has std gen 1 cams no offset pin and has run to 12k
The second one has a top fueler type strobe thats driving me nuts, its in the iap range no load up to 5500rpm , just about to put gen 2 cams in it and std size primarys and fit a set of secondarys (brought another plenum ) so i can just replicate mine

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