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Post Info TOPIC: Gen2 ECU conversion for a GEN1 for use in a Prostreet Bike


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RE: Gen2 ECU conversion for a GEN1 for use in a Prostreet Bike


My intake is right around 109-5-110 degrees. If it were a bit lower (108 or so), it would probably work. I may just re-time it to 108 and give it a shot.

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Good to hear you are making progress John, you would not think that would be the problem looking at the oscilloscope output!



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I ground the offset cam pin to ~.155" as compared to originally .200" and put the crank rotor back to normal. Fired right up.

Here is the resulting crank to cam relation for future reference:



And this one that would not run (the location of the cam pules is the problem, not the shape of the pulse):





Engine kind of sounds like it has an exhaust leak or maybe a small miss in it while idling. Those I know I can fix....

John

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the sweetest sounding exhaust leak ever :)



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Great Job John....... Glad to Hear You gotter Licked Bro! smile



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So the cam trailing edge needs to be before the crank rising edge not the trailing ??

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Maj750 wrote:

So the cam trailing edge needs to be before the crank rising edge not the trailing ??


 That appears to be the case Greg. I thought it had to be before the start of the trailing edge myself.

I can't be 100% certain that this is the case, but I am fairly sure. I have some other combinations of crank position and cam pin configuration that I will try to put together in an email for future reference.

 

All of the combos that had the trailing edge of the cam before the start of the rise crank #1 pulse started.  The only one that would not start was the original one. It is very close.

 

One other thing tonote is that a GSXR1k cam sensor in a gen1 cover needs to have the wires oriented to the left , otherwise, it stays high and goes low on the pin trigger. This had nothing to do with it not running, only a verification last night when switching from gen2 to gen1 covers.

 

John



-- Edited by sportbikeryder on Monday 7th of May 2012 12:18:18 PM

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So your change in cam timing from the previous build caused it to not start ?

Interesting about the mounting postion, mounted mine to the left as that was the way the gen 2 fitted, but was considering turning it around for intercooler clearance...

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I never actually changed the cam gear position. I'll have to check my notes, I believe it was a very small amount different from last time due to the different head on it.

As for the cam sensor, I had it installed with the wires pointing toward the right and it gave an inverted signal on the scope.

I had the GEN2 cover and sensor on for the testing while messing with the cam pin locations and then switched out to the GEN1 with the GSXR sensor.

If I am not mistaken, Petri had some info uncovered regarding the cam and crank sensors. It woudl be interesting to see what signal the ECU is looking for with respect to the cam and crank location.


I was discussing a small, semi-custom ecu for an engine prototype I am involved with and the supplier noted that that ECU uses the falling edge of the #1 crank pulse. I am wondering if Suzuki perhaps has the crank sensor #1 being triggered at say a 1 volt differential from the missing tooth voltage.

That is a complete guess, but I was truly under the impression it was falling edge. After this exercise, I am not so convinced...

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Well...the bike is out of the garage and the flash is finishing up....If it starts and all works, I'll be throwing the bodywork on, cleaning out my trailer and heading to the track...

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Hmmm...leaking valve cover...

Also noticed tha the AQ-1 data logger is screwing with the TPS signal. Had to unplug to make the values correct. Tried it again with the logger powered up and it seems to be working.


Now...Time to change a valve cover on a hot engine...


Shiftlight doesn;t seem to be working. I may try an incandescent light.

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Valve cover replaced and bike back to where it was an hour and a half ago. I tried wiring a relay to the PAIR for the shiftlight....still no activation of the relay.

Maybe I will try it without a shiftlight. Might be a bit touch at the track.. no lite and no tach.

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7.996 yesterday in testing. It wouldnt take over 20psi boost. I think it may have been a boosr lim
it issue. 1st rnd qual in about an hour.

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sportbikeryder wrote:

7.996 yesterday in testing. It wouldnt take over 20psi boost. I think it may have been a boosr lim
it issue. 1st rnd qual in about an hour.


 Very Nice John!!!! smile If You don't mind, I might PM you on the Other Site for some TURBO Help? I have Been REALLY thinking Hard about going to a Turbo Setup! wink Tired of Filling Bottles lol



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Do it man, just do it :) once you go turbo you will wonder why you didn't do it years ago. and why everything else in life sucks so much lol

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John are you referencing boost via editor or another device

Toxic, some good buys out there for complete bikes, i hear a yellow bike changed hands twice lately, a great deal to both buyers ;)

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smithabusa wrote:

Do it man, just do it :) once you go turbo you will wonder why you didn't do it years ago. and why everything else in life sucks so much lol


 lol Thanks Greg. wink It's just I have ALWAY'S Had Nitrous Platforms(Cars & Bikes) and I'm Completely Dumb when it Comes to Boost! no 

Not Mention I'm on the Ole "Family" Budget, So I would like to Piece a Kit together & Do everything Myself(Just don't have the $$$ up front for a 4,000 Kit). Plus I feel with doing it this way, it FORCES Me to learn Quicker(The Hard way or Not?)

Whats a Good Turbo to Start out with? Say Something that will do 250-300hp and still be Ride-able on the Street?



-- Edited by ToXSicK RoCKeT on Saturday 2nd of June 2012 11:04:44 PM

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rcc

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Everything is controlled by the ecu. I have an aem aq1 in addition to log box for logging. I also have an nlr sim but im not sure it is really needed.


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5.18 in the 1/8th and 7.94 in the 1/4 tonight at my local track. I lifted just after teh 1000ft as the shutdown is a bit short. 167 at the 1000' and 159 through the 1/4 mile traps.

Starting to come around.

John

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Good improvement John!



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7.78 was the best ET of this past weekend and my best to date... that was driving through the clutch from taking a touch too much weight off of it (.014" wear on one pass). It did stay down though.  Got it over the 150mph mark in the 1/8th.

First round Eliminations I added two washers to the clutch arms when I should have added 1. It lifted from the hit, I had to back out, but then, since I new I was going on the trailer, I grabbed the "add even more boost" button.

How about 194.27 through the traps!

 

Time to test out the 5 bar sensor....3 bar was flat lined pretty early in the run. I tune very rich so it was still ok out the back, but starting to cross the line on fueling since it stopped adding more fuel once the sensor maxed out.



-- Edited by sportbikeryder on Monday 23rd of July 2012 01:20:23 PM

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killer mph John! Have any videos?

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194.....WOOT......WOOT.....smile



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smithabusa wrote:

killer mph John! Have any videos?


 I don't have any. I might need to get a Go Pro or something.



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stocker wrote:

194.....WOOT......WOOT.....smile


 Thanks Marc. I have the power, now I just need to use it earlier.



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7.74 at only 161mph tonight, lifting early to help with shutdown.
Added some test weight to the front end and it made a HUGE difference.

5.09@152 in the 1/8th.

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WWow John! 152 in the 2/8 sweet

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7.603 tonight. ECU is working well.

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awesome work John

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Great job John :)



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John
What is your final veridic for where the crank trigger should be for TDC 1-4? Gen 1 its 8 teeth before the missing tooth. Im looking to put Gen 2 on 91 gsxr motor. I know on Gen 1 motor the crank sensor is in the middle of the missing tooth when the cam pin is inline with the sensor on comp stroke of #4. Is this the same on gen 2?

This thread has some awesome information Thanks!!
-Ryan

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I actually have never measured it. That said, On my application, I used a GEN1 rotor adn simply removed an extra tooth. I do not have a GEN2 rotor to measure.
That said, It seems my bike is more sensitive to cam pin locations than "real" gen2 bikes. There could be a slight timing change in the machining of the crank rotor tooth to key location between the two.

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I need to get a motor and charge cooler built...lots of new changes to implement for next season...



-- Edited by sportbikeryder on Saturday 10th of November 2012 04:53:55 PM

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LOL and here i am about to loose the intercooler on the new liner project ,just run straight methanol with one extra injector in the up pipe for cooling

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Maj750 wrote:

LOL and here i am about to loose the intercooler on the new liner project ,just run straight methanol with one extra injector in the up pipe for cooling


 The injectors in the up pipe work well. There is at least one very competitive bike in the US dragracing that is doing that with gasoline. Cools the charge very well. Alcohol will cool it even more.

 

I've learned alot this year in racing. Especially about what it DOESN'T take to run an extremely competitive prostreet number.

I just paid for another set of cases. I think I am going to gather up everything I need and build 2 moors at a time. That way I have a fall back when one goes south next season....I am pretty sure one is going to go south...

 



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Same with landspeed , i have a spare motor for the 750 and putting together as i can afford it a spare 1407 or at least a 1363 for the busa , its like an insurance, if you have it you don't need it as often

just have to watch the fuel volume in the up pipe or it could be a pretty spectacular backfire

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Dear all,

I would like to convert my hayabusa powered car from GEN1 to GEN2 electronics. According what I have read and understood on this post, this swap has already been done successfully on different bikes.

I have the following parts from a GEN2 busa: full harness and its ECU, throttle bodies, all sensors except camshaft position sensor. I don't have the cluster gauge but I use actually a race technology dash 2 as dashboard. I can also buy a GEN2 stator/rotor if needed but I would prefer to machine the GEN1 rotor if possible.

I would like to keep the GEN1 valve cover so I will need a GSXR1k cam sensor with the wires oriented to the left. My question is concerning the need or not of an offset cam pin with a GEN1 busa valve cover and GSXR cam sensor? If yes, does the offset pin made by Brock is OK ?

What are the other mods necessary before to make a custom map on dyno ?

Thanks for your help. Jérémy



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Yes, you will need an offset cam pin. I also recommend using an oscilloscope to see teh relationship of the crank trigger and cam signal. Machining of the GEN1 rotor works (again, check with a scope).

If you are doing a full swap, there is not much to do to get it to run. Be advised that the GEN2 throttle bodies will not directly fit onto a GEN1 head. The spacing between cylinders 2&3 is greater on a gen2.

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i have one converted gen 1 running std gen 1 cams with the gen 1 covers and gix sensor , no offset pin , runs to 11500 no probs ,
have not set or checked the cam timing, just did the conversion as it was delivered , its turbo with spacer, so timing could be advanced

on other bikes like John i have modified the brocks pin ,
a multi meter or test light shows clearly the switch point on the cam sensor if you do not have acess to a oscilloscope, you can turn the motor as you watch the crank sensor and look for the trigger point of the cam sensor

if you have no gauges to display fault codes you can forget the gen 2 throttlebodys and just use the gen 1 , it will log the secondary throttle faults, but not affect anything .



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Had the bike on the dyno yesterday. Had a few issues, including a battery that decided it would rather exist as a bunch of smoke rather than an actual battery. I didn't get to tune as much as i wanted due to the electrical issue, but all in all I am happy with the results.

There is an issue causing the torque to nose over fairly abruptly, but should be able to get it worked out.

 

 

 

 



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Had the bike on the dyno yesterday. Had a few issues, including a battery that decided it would rather exist as a bunch of smoke rather than an actual battery. I didn't get to tune as much as i wanted due to the electrical issue, but all in all I am happy with the results.

There is an issue causing the torque to nose over fairly abruptly, but should be able to get it worked out.

 

 



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Good numbers John :)



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Ran a personal best of 7.497 in teh 1/4 at Maryland International Raceway for the MIROCK superbike series this past weekend, still using a GEN2 ecu tuned with ECU editor and a Woolich Log Box.

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Well done John, that ET is coming down :)



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Yeah, I hope to get it even lower. I have been having some oiling issues with teh bottom end that I believe I have a solution for. Just need to build ANOTHER engine to test the theory that I have a handle on it...

Hoping to get it into the 30's. It has been a great run with the stock electronics. That said, I believe I will be switching out to a standalone this winter, not sure which one just yet.

Looking to consolidate even farther and truely have one box on the bike that I have to check and review between rounds. The WRT Log Box works well, but there are some things that I would like to try that aren't practical with the stock ECU tuning software.

Seeing Woolich Racing sponsor the Prostreet Battle Royale at MIR in the fall is a HUGE push for the ECU flashing world. Hopefully I can work to make the "A" field with a flashed bike and show that it is a viable tuning tool.

Jason Zittle will be (hopefully) campaigning a Prostreet with a GEN2 flashed ECU at the next MIROCK event at MIR as well.

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Bumped the ET down to 7.350 and my best speed up to 195.82 this weekend. Still using the GEN2 ecu and flashing/logging with a Woolich Racing Log Box.

My primary logger is an AEM AQ-1, however it sometimes doesn't want to save a file correctly during logging and I use the log box to check the data.

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How's the bike?

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Still at 7.35 for the best ET.

Tweaked a few things and made 555hp the other day with a bit of tire spin.
Hurt the motor at teh last race and need to pull it and rebuild.
I also had some issues witht eh logging last race with the log box not logging. I didn't really look into it, but it may be a wire issue.

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Hey John 

Can you shoot me an Email had few questions for you.

rmoses @ gmaamericas . com



-- Edited by Yallgotboost on Thursday 15th of May 2014 02:23:39 AM

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