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Post Info TOPIC: K7 project documentation notes


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K7 project documentation notes


Ah ok, didn't actually check that specifically,
i do know that the rpm limiter setting & 2 step limiter settings are exactly same as the dyno .
the rpm limit is set to 13700 on this bike.
-- Edited by gixxted on Monday 7th of February 2011 07:50:21 PM

-- Edited by gixxted on Monday 7th of February 2011 07:51:56 PM

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PetriK wrote:


There was a bug in gixxer fan settings, thanks for bringing it to my attention. After downloading Version: 2.5.2.12 or newer, please retest and report back.




 



I'll check it tommorow..biggrin.gif

-- Edited by BUZKA on Monday 7th of February 2011 07:54:57 PM

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hallo to all
i flashed a 32920-21H00 and the 2 step limmiter works but it has a problem the bike doesent revs more than 9000rpm after a normal flash problem solved without 2 step

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BUZKA wrote:

 

PetriK wrote:


There was a bug in gixxer fan settings, thanks for bringing it to my attention. After downloading Version: 2.5.2.12 or newer, please retest and report back.




 



I'll check it tommorow..biggrin.gif

-- Edited by BUZKA on Monday 7th of February 2011 07:54:57 PM

 




Everything is ok now with temperature control

I've one question about 2 step limiter.I have problems with unburned fuel,it shots like hell when 2 step limiter is working.For test i've set main limiter to 10000RPM and there is no problem with it.I can make 50% throttle open and it works great it dont shot.Is there difference beetwen them?

Regards



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Will look into k7 2step.

Normal limiter limits fuel, two stel limits ignition. I am hesitant to run bike lean by fuel limiter just before start.


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I have no experience,but as i know (in theory) too much unburned fuel is no good for engine.
But only test and starts can verify everything.
Maybe good solution will be to have possibility to choose beetwen FUEL or IGN cut for the test.
I think that unexpected detonation in exhaust manifold of turbo engines can be dangerous..
Maybe someone of You have more experience in this subject.


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I am using msd launch master that does the same thing cuts only the ignition.Both on n/a and turbo applications never had any issues.

Don't forget that this feature is only for racing purpose and not for fun so use it only when drag racing.

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Matador wrote:

I am using msd launch master that does the same thing cuts only the ignition.Both on n/a and turbo applications never had any issues.

Don't forget that this feature is only for racing purpose and not for fun so use it only when drag racing.



OK.Thanks for info..
I will test it on our low grip tracks..confuse.

 



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i tested every 2 step rev limiter matt and i ever built (quite a number of them) on my wife's 05 busa, so it saw quite a bit of being pegged against the 2 step, and never had any issues, that was ignition cut only.

Greg


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Most of us with turbo are wanting fuel burning in the exhaust to initiate positive intake pressures asap

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I would like this to be stickied to the top. Please.



Mark

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Like Manzo, i wish set the idle speed over 2000 rpm on my 1000 K7.
Is it possible ? and how ? thanks

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pierre wrote:

Like Manzo, i wish set the idle speed over 2000 rpm on my 1000 K7.
Is it possible ? and how ? thanks



That could set the FI light. If this kind of feature is needed for any racing teams we can have a look into it if there is serious testing commitment and good reasoning why this is needed.

 



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PetriK wrote:

That could set the FI light. If this kind of feature is needed for any racing teams we can have a look into it if there is serious testing commitment and good reasoning why this is needed.


As a racing team I cannot think of any reason why I would want to use the ECU to control my idle speed.

It is a simply job to bypass the idle speed control (ISC) valve and allow you to set the idle manually.

The only requirement would be a way to turn off the ISC.



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it avoids the blows delivered to the gas and it removes part of the engine braking ..

Generally I put 2000 to 2500 following the circuit

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I would increase the idle if it were possible.

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It is possible! A friend had a K7 1000 and had raised the idle without modifying the ECU.

Greetings
Rufer

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Yes, its possible to disable ISC and have a higher idle, but there is a RPM limit after which youll still get an FI code even if ISC is disabled.

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rufer wrote:

It is possible! A friend had a K7 1000 and had raised the idle without modifying the ECU.

Greetings
Rufer



How ?

 



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PetriK wrote:

Yes, its possible to disable ISC and have a higher idle, but there is a RPM limit after which youll still get an FI code even if ISC is disabled.



Thanks. So How and what limit ?

 



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Surely people are trying to raise the idle to reduce engine braking issues when they should really be doing that with the secondary throttle bodies?

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I think that there is an other way to reduce engine braking. It only needs some testing. I'll try to find how Yamaha is doing this at YZ450F 2010 model. At standard ecu tuning has the option to adjust engine braking.


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How can the secondary's make a difference when the primarys are shut? [on engine braking]

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Doca wrote:

How can the secondary's make a difference when the primarys are shut? [on engine braking]




Maybe we could do it this way...

 

-Shut the ISC valve off

- Replace the idle bolt with one from earlier models,so it can be adjusted by hand. Yoshimura also sells a long idle adjust screw or maybe we can use one from Kawasakis

- Adjust the idle from primaries with the secondaries fully open to the required rpms ( lets say 3.000 rpm)

- Then use the secondaries to bring the idle down to 1.000 rpms in neutral for normal idle. ( through stp maping)

- Then adjust the secondaries to increase the idle accordingly ( at high rpm low throtle,engine braking area)

 

 

I haven't tried this is just an idea... Or use an STM slipper clutch brushteeth.gif



-- Edited by Balojohn on Friday 18th of March 2011 02:00:16 PM

-- Edited by Balojohn on Friday 18th of March 2011 02:25:03 PM

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I've always been curious has to how much effect the ignition maps have on engine braking.  All the Suzukis have these really high ignition advance numbers during trailing throttle. (TPS < 3%, at 4000rpm and up).

Is it to prevent backfiring? An anti-smog thing? Or could it be igniting the fuel that far before top dead center actually slows down the engine.

I'd be curious to see if some one flashed a bike with identical fuel, stp, etc maps in mode A and B except for the ignition maps where one mode would not have the high trailing throttle numbers.

That way you could test it "side by side"  to see if there was any noticable difference in engine braking

gsxr044.jpg

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Doca wrote:

How can the secondary's make a difference when the primarys are shut? [on engine braking]




Because the way the secondaries are controlled also opens the primaries.

 

If you look at the data logging the TPS doesn't show a fully closed throttle.

 

You do not need a high idle speed if you get the secondaries mapped properly.



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Last news..
Yesterday i've flashed 1000k8 ECU with gen2.bin and it started to run on 600k8.
It means that 600 and 1000 ECU's are interchangable..

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Petrik,
I started studiying the STP mapping on the 1000K8,
there is something not clear to me, as stock MS maps, it seems to me that
the ECU use the MS0, in fact both fuel and timing start with Ms0, but examining the STP maps, it start with MS1, where the values i see seems
plausible, but if i switch to MS0 STP map that SHOULD be the default map,
i get valuse that look like restricted, at 90% tps it allows the secondaryes to open just 28%...
are the Ms1-MS0 labels inverted ? possibly a bug ? i am studying the thing on
the 1000k8 eu/au 21H50 and 21H50 early ( this one look more complete with also the SD maps)

Can you sort out my doubts before i start tinkering on the bike ?

Also, is there a way to turn off the "Fuel cut" during down-revving ?
What i mean, if i rev my engine to lets say 10.000 rpm, and i fully close my throttle,
at TPS ZERO and rpm over 4000 the ECU totaly cut the fuel, its done to save fuel and avoid backfiring,
but disabling this fuel cut also soften the engine braking, that would be a nice feature to have,
also i suppose this would be useful for turbo application where someone could use this feature added to heavy
timing retard to have the fuel burn in the exhaust helping to keep the turbine spooled,
this is commonly used in turbo rallye cars and known as ALS ( Anti Lag System ).
( i know i know, this would be a very RUDIMENTARY ALS, but HEY , its free ! ;) )

Also, haveing an option to make rpm limiter act on sparks instead of fuel would make me feel Waaaaayyyy happyer and safer :)
(maybe i am too old school, but cutting fuel in an engine revving over 12.000 never made me feel safe )

@RidgeRacer

I suppose the very High timing is to obtain the opposite of the ALS,
and ensure no backfiring in any way.





-- Edited by Manzo on Saturday 19th of March 2011 06:43:23 PM

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Manzo wrote:

Petrik,
I started studiying the STP mapping on the 1000K8,
there is something not clear to me, as stock MS maps, it seems to me that
the ECU use the MS0, in fact both fuel and timing start with Ms0, but examining the STP maps, it start with MS1, where the values i see seems
plausible, but if i switch to MS0 STP map that SHOULD be the default map,
i get valuse that look like restricted, at 90% tps it allows the secondaryes to open just 28%...
are the Ms1-MS0 labels inverted ? possibly a bug ? i am studying the thing on
the 1000k8 eu/au 21H50 and 21H50 early ( this one look more complete with also the SD maps)



I have also noticed that STP MS0 maps are restricted & fuel TPS MS0 lean. to me they look mixed up

Also found a bug I think then in a gen2 injector balance map, the cells in 15200rpm dont react to a +, minus is OK but you cant raise the value.
there is also no ability to paste in to inj balance and ram air maps.



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Gixxer has MS1 as stock, the MS0 is european restricted model, but map switching is not even enabled as stock. You need to enable that. Dont ask why they designed it that way for gixxer.

The last row bug is known, it does not really affect anything but than inconvenience - someone should really fix that...


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Petrik,
Let me understand:
As stock, gixxer use MS1 STP maps, but MS0 Fuel and advance map ?

Or Ms1 STP and Ms1 fuel and advance ?



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As stock gixxer uses MS1 mapS.

When ms0 or ms1 is selected its then used for all maps.

You can see on advanced settings screen which is there by default.



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for the last row thing in the inj balance map you can change the values by pressing * it will increase it by 1

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RidgeRacer wrote:

I've always been curious has to how much effect the ignition maps have on engine braking.  All the Suzukis have these really high ignition advance numbers during trailing throttle. (TPS < 3%, at 4000rpm and up).

Is it to prevent backfiring? An anti-smog thing? Or could it be igniting the fuel that far before top dead center actually slows down the engine.

I'd be curious to see if some one flashed a bike with identical fuel, stp, etc maps in mode A and B except for the ignition maps where one mode would not have the high trailing throttle numbers.

That way you could test it "side by side"  to see if there was any noticable difference in engine braking

gsxr044.jpg






 Adding fuel, and retarding the timing in this area will minimize the engine braking. On my Aprilia SXV I have added TONS (50%) more fuel, and have 30 degrees (45-55 stock) of timing. There is still some engine braking, however it is very minimal compared to stock. As a test in placed idle area values in this range and there was almost no engine braking. The side effect was that it would idle at 3500 not 2200 like normal.

Also Ridge what software is that screen shot from? I have been using WinOLS, but need something a bit more open/legal for a project I'm working on. 



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while tuning MS0 and MS1 I'm using different values to have the same A/F target

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proarm wrote:

while tuning MS0 and MS1 I'm using different values to have the same A/F target


 

 On a K7/K8 1000? Any idea why?



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   Balajohn, I wrote on your wall on this site. I have a question for you. My e-mail is

buddrinker59  AT  yahoo.com  Just change the AT word to the @ symbol.

 

 

Thanks,

Mark



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on a K7 1000.

I don't know why. I just wanted tu tune a map at 14.7 a/f for economy while riding at low rpms' <=9600 and tps <=60% and when I started tuning the higher map values I noticed that copy/paste from MS1 to MS0 doesn't run the same A/F.



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Fast question
WHO KNOWS VERSION 21H80..???
Where is this one from..

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proarm wrote:

on a K7 1000.

I don't know why. I just wanted tu tune a map at 14.7 a/f for economy while riding at low rpms' <=9600 and tps <=60% and when I started tuning the higher map values I noticed that copy/paste from MS1 to MS0 doesn't run the same A/F.


 stp maps are different between ms0 and ms1 ???

I will usually reply faster on facebook...

 



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PetriK wrote:

OK, then it shall be F1. Let me know your paypal over email or something... 1 x MX23A36NF1 or alike male 3 x MX23A36SF1 or alike female


 

 Are these the correct ecu connectors? Where can I get them? I want to make both plugs to the K7,K8 ecu and  convert an older bike to the new computer.

I have heard digi-key has them but, I am not sure.

 

Thanks,

Mark

 

 



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My experinece with both DigiKey and Mouser.com is that they tend to stock the 1 indexed plugs but not the other.  The plugs are 'keyed' so you can't accidentally plug the black into the gray. The tend to stock the one index key but not the other. When ordering make sure no just the colors match but the index/key as well.



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RidgeRacer wrote:

My experinece with both DigiKey and Mouser.com is that they tend to stock the 1 indexed plugs but not the other.  The plugs are 'keyed' so you can't accidentally plug the black into the gray. The tend to stock the one index key but not the other. When ordering make sure no just the colors match but the index/key as well.


 RR,

Thank you for the advice you might have saved me an OPPS. Any after some studing I think I need one MX23A36SF1 and one MX23A36SF2 to connect to the ECU. On the JAE connector site it says that one is Gray and one is black other than that they sound about the same.

Mouser.com has them but, they require 141 piece minimum order.

 

Thanks,

Mark

 



-- Edited by Busa Quick on Friday 22nd of April 2011 05:22:04 PM

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I ordered some from Digikay and shipped them to PetriK. As far as I know, they worked ok.

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sportbikeryder wrote:

I ordered some from Digikay and shipped them to PetriK. As far as I know, they worked ok.


Thanks sportbikeryder! I have regained some hope.

 I will have to look at my ecu when I get home. But in the data sheets the only difference I could find on the plug was the color. So I might only need the one style.

 

 

 

 



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I measured my ecu plugs with a caliper and they are the same!!! I ordered the plug from digi-key. It will be 2 black ones instead of a black and grey.
To do a plug swap you need digikey #s:
2x 670-2469-nd front cap orang
2x 670-2468-nd socket housing
100x 670-1682-1-nd crimp connectors...the pins  100 pieces is the best deal and I will have extra that I will sell if someone needs.
Busa Quick wrote:

sportbikeryder wrote:

I ordered some from Digikay and shipped them to PetriK. As far as I know, they worked ok.


Thanks sportbikeryder! I have regained some hope.

 I will have to look at my ecu when I get home. But in the data sheets the only difference I could find on the plug was the color. So I might only need the one style.

 

 

 

 


 

 



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For me I just grind off the 2 index pins from the grey ecu connector when I accidently order 2 MX23A36SF1.

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jayknight wrote:

For me I just grind off the 2 index pins from the grey ecu connector when I accidently order 2 MX23A36SF1.


 Thank you, for info.

 

Mark

 



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Hi Ridgeracer,

I'm also wondering why the values are so high in this area of the ignition maps.

My experience while a lot of days on test benches with several engines are that coming from shut off function you need a lot of preignition to makes shure that the beginning fuel injection don't bring to much hydrocarbones into exhaust.

In newer engines with cylinderselective firing and injection there  should be certain ramp up functions to make shure the first active loading cycle will fire.

For the engine braking it has no effect because the pumping function of engine is dominant in higher rpms.

But with the setting of the STP to 100% as you know you can modify the offset of the tps and so you are able to reduce braking force of the engine.

But for the transfer action from closed tps from higher rpms to slightly open during f.e. narrow curves you can modify the torque reaction by using no to early ignition timings.

I'm using such a Map for lower gears on my bandit biggrin.

It's a little bit tricky to adjust while I'm not knowing wether this ecu uses transfer or ramp up function but it works.

If you want more information I'd send you a map to look at.

Best regards Ferry



-- Edited by azocka on Wednesday 4th of March 2015 05:07:34 PM

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PetriK wrote:

Yes, its possible to disable ISC and have a higher idle, but there is a RPM limit after which youll still get an FI code even if ISC is disabled.


Old thread, but does somebody know what is the max idle RPM you can set? 

For track bikes Yoshimura recommends 2.0% TPS idle ~2500rpm.

 



-- Edited by JuhaK on Sunday 15th of March 2015 09:33:50 AM

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