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Post Info TOPIC: idle timing map


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idle timing map


im looking for a quick and easy way to up my idle speed a couple of 100rpms.. i have bigger cams 415-385 and its idling around 1100-1200 id like it to be a little higher like 1300-1400... could i add like 5 dgrees timing in the idle map to do this..as toutching the idle screw is a bog no no on a gen 2 ive read.



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Is the bike not staying running (stalling)?

If you have an active ISC (Idle speed control) it will probably just go back to where it is trying to go.

you can try de-activating the idle speed control in Ecu Editor and then adjust the screw.

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nah its running fine... and yes your right about the isc..tought about that last night in bed hahaha

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well, take that back its not running fine lol...i put alot of miles on it today and very often i get the isc code come up and sometimes it stall because of that... cycle the key and fires right up with the code gone. So has anybody tried desactivating the isc in ee? and raising the idle screw manually? i cant belive im the only one that has that problem? my cams arent that big either...415-385..... humm weird!

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how about if i do raise the idle screw manuallly and leave the isc alone... it wont run faster but it should help the isc do its job no?

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I think if you change the speed by the screw the isc will fault
if you measure your tps voltage before making any changes , you in theory should be able to put it back if you don't like how it runs on manual speed control

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ok then im going to add 5 degrees timing down low and aadd some fuel also in the decel area as its way lean there...that should help... its not missing mutch to be ok.

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well the timing helped alot the cold start but only helped a little my low idle problem when hot.. humm i also wonder if i up the idle screw a little if the isc will fault...because if it doesent it should help it do its job...



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i have also just read in the shop manual that you can adjust the idle speed with the sds tool... i have a friend that works at suzuki, i will give him a call. Now im nut sure but remeber reading this... but not sure and hope not...in order for the sds tool to work do i have to remove my 2 wires added in the sds connector?

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another thing.. man im trying hard and reading to learn how to fix this.. leaving for deal gap soon 18hr drive.. i want a perfect bike before leaving lol. my gps sensor is acting up ( my bike used to be a gen 1 that i converted to gen electronics) i bought a gen 2 gps sensor en ebay waiting for it to arrive. sometimes it doesent write anything in the dash where its supposed to write what gear your in... i have read that if the ecu thinks your in neutral while in gear it runs on the neutral map and some guys have had that problem...and it threw a code c40 like me while decelerating... if the gps doesent write anything in my dash (sometimes...very often in 5th gear) does the ecu revert to the neutral map?



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Yes it does, i worked through some issues recently with Maj on his land speed bike where the GPS sensor was playing up and it was reverting to the neutral map, the gen 2 GPS sensor is more reliable and should sort the problem.



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If the gps is unreliable , in the short term put a tre or resistor in, 5.6kohm between pink and black wires and cut the pink between resistor and gps



-- Edited by Maj750 on Sunday 15th of April 2012 02:03:25 PM

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hummm how about if i put all the values from my tps timing map in the neutral timing map until i get my new gps sensor...would that work?

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Bigger issue would be the erratic input causing constant switching between various gear maps and settings , be easier to use a resistor to "lock it in one gear " then replace the gps when you can

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Maj750 wrote:

ive done the resistor mod like you told me until i get my new gps senor, havent ridden it yet. why is it that in neutral it doesent write 0 only the neutral gear green light goes on. all other gears are 5 now !smile

 

If the gps is unreliable , in the short term put a tre or resistor in, 5.6kohm between pink and black wires and cut the pink between resistor and gps



-- Edited by Maj750 on Sunday 15th of April 2012 02:03:25 PM


 



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I have a 09 busa with 1441, ported head, and it had a set of we 395/378's in it.  I took them out and put a set of carpenter 425 cams in.  I also put a schnitz nitrous manifold on at the same time.  the idle jumped up and down between 1600-1800rpm. I sprayed starter fluid around the nitrous clamp and he idle would jump up or down.  the clamp didn't seat all the way down on the head towards the front it would stick up about 1/16" off the head. I put a light coat of silicone on the ruber seals.  Now I could spray starter fluid and the idle wouldn't change.  it was still high though. Couldn't figure out what was wrong.  hookup up ecu editor on the data monitoring screen and it said  like 2.5% tps.  It has never ben touched since new.  I adjusted it to 0% tps and idle was back to stock.

So in short.  you could try adjusting the tps so it shows as having a little throttle at idle to raise the rpms at idle.



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I'm not certain but there are pairs of maps at the beginning of each gear's data block that look like they could be idle ignition maps. They are just before the main ignition maps.

8-bit, 6x25 at addresses 800BA, 80150; 900BA, 90150; A00BA, A0150; B00BA, B0150; C00BA, C0150; D00BA, D0150

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I think i have found the value in the bin file that controls the idle speed target value, its currently set at 1150 RPM, I will code up a change that will allow this value to be adjusted so this can be tested, I will let you know when this is ready for testing ;)

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Ok i have just realeased a new version 2.5.5.95 that now has the ability to change the target idle rpm in Advanced Settings, the standard value is 1150 rpm and you can adjust it in increments of 50 rpm from 1000rpm - 1800 rpm.

Be good if i could get someone to test this change ;)

Cheers

-Justin.



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That's Very Cool J! I will Deffinately Test it out after Work Today! smile

Do we need to do anything with ISC setting(s)? 

Thanks Justin wink



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No you should not have to do anything special, just change the idle rpm in advanced settings and flash the change.



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jkwool wrote:

No you should not have to do anything special, just change the idle rpm in advanced settings and flash the change.


 Cool! Thanks....... I will Post up later tonight on how it Works. smile



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Just make sure you don't have ISC disabled in the software ToXSicK

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sportbikeryder wrote:

Just make sure you don't have ISC disabled in the software ToXSicK


 Will do! Thanks John.



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Well, Im Sorry to Report it did Not Work for Me. I Tried Reflashing it Twice, Once @ 1350RPM's & the last 1500RPM's and the Bike RPM's stayed right @ 1150 +/- 200 (I even confirmed this with the Engine Data Screen)

**Just to Note, this was with ISC Enabled, Normal Engine Temp, V2.5.5.95**

Justin/John, are We 100% Sure that I should not have to "Disable" ISC? (Did not want to try it without Your guy's thoughts, in Case it might Harm Something??......... But I can Try that if you guy's think I should?)

Justin,

I Did save the last Flash/Bin file I flashed into the ECU. The one with the 1500RPM Settings. Would you like Me to email that to you?



-- Edited by ToXSicK RoCKeT on Saturday 19th of May 2012 01:38:21 AM

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I tried it on my bike this morning at 1400 rpm and it worked perfectly?!?! yeah send through your bin and i will take a look.

Phil maybe try with a stock bin file and only adjust the idle speed nothing else, just to rule out any other settings you may have?

I will try again this afternoon at another RPM setting just to confirm my result

Cheers

-Justin.



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jkwool wrote:

I tried it on my bike this morning at 1400 rpm and it worked perfectly?!?! yeah send through your bin and i will take a look.

Phil maybe try with a stock bin file and only adjust the idle speed nothing else, just to rule out any other settings you may have?

I will try again this afternoon at another RPM setting just to confirm my result

Cheers

-Justin.


 I Will give it a Shot...... But seems Kinda Weird why it would't Take for Mine but did for Yours??? Maybe Me having My Nitrous Module Turned on was causing a Problem??? confuse

I sent You the .Bin File.  smile



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From "M J Wiliams" on suzukihayabusa.org,"Tried the ISC idle speed control today. Worked as promised and would move my idle speed up and down but still didn't get rid of my 40-505 code after I turned the ISC back on. There are some other things at work here that I need to get straightened out before I go after the sensor. It is a great addition to the ECU Editor and I thank everybody who does the ground work on it"

Not sure what he means by 40-505 code, but it looks promising for the idle control.

Phil, if I am not mistaken, your bike is a CA model correct? There could be something deeper in yours for emissions reasons.

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Ok cool, well that confirms my results as well... Phil maybe also try a non Cal stock bin file with only the idle speed adjusted....



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I have a Non-CA ECU in My Busa. I sent My CA One to you Justin for all the Testing you do.

My Current .Bin is "US" and a "US ECU" as Well. I'm gonna go back out Right Now and Test with Just a Straight K8 file and See if it Solves the issue.......Stand by. wink



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IDK Fella's?

I loaded a Stock K8 Map, ONLY Changed RPM's to 1500rpms, "US" Model, and Flashed it. Once Complete, Said Flash was Successful, Cycled Key on/off, Started Bike and it has the Same Stock RPM's (1150 +/- 200) confuse

 

Justin, I sent this .Bin to you as well.



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Phil, is the bike warmed up?

I don't know how this part of the code works, but maybe it has a separate warm up idle speed?

Did you try it in gear and in neutral?


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sportbikeryder wrote:

Phil, is the bike warmed up?

I don't know how this part of the code works, but maybe it has a separate warm up idle speed?

Did you try it in gear and in neutral?


 Yes Sir, Bike is Warmed all the way up to were the Fan is Cycling on & off. I only Tried it in Neutral. I guess I can do it again and Put it in Gear and see what Happen's(though I dont see where that would be a issue, But to rule things out I will)

I am also going to Try doing at "1400" RPM's....... Seeing how thats what worked for Justin.

Question, Does the ISC Actully Control the idle Speed? (or is it Just a Sensor to say when things arn't right?)



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The ISC controls an air bleed that bypasses the throttle plates to allow more air in.

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Thank you very mutch justin!!!!! i just came back from my 3500mile trip to deals gap-tail of the dragon. i didnt have any issues on my trip with the isc code coming up until i was almost back home, my chain was real loose and my rear sprocket was hurt so i was taking it real easy and the isc code came up 2 times when slowing down in gear (i have replaced my gps sensor with a new gen 2 sensor and it solved my problem 95% ) now i reflashed this morning with the new version of ecu editor and put 1350 rpm as the value and left the isc active, it did not work for me either, idle stayed at 1150. thanks for all the hard work, keep it up!!!

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Ok,

I think we need to do some more testing on this one as it does not seem to work consistently for all users. One thing i noticed when i was reading through all the assembly code was it seems to default to the stock idle rpm if there are fault codes present. Is that something you guys that are able to test this can check?



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by fault codes present do you mean the fi light on or do you mean fi light whent on and is now off but fault codes are stored in the ecu? my fi light is off but i have isc fault code stored in the ecu, didnt erase them...i think it can be done with ecu editor can it? never checked.

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I think it is fault codes currently present.

I am just uploading a new version of ecueditor, i have been speaking to a few guys about this including Manzo (Italy) and Chris Zak (France) and they pointed me towards another map with idle speed settings that needs to be modified, so i have implemented this change.

I will test it tomorrow morning, but by all means if some other guys could test this change it would be cool!

Just for your knowledge there is a map that controls idle speed based on coolant temp, so idle speed is higher when engine is cold which may be why i had flase positive result this morning. So to do full test will need to set new idle rpm and let the bike get hot and test idle.

Cheers

-Justin.



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yes there is a map that controls idle speed based on coolant temp for cold starts, my bike idles at 1400-1500 when cold. it would be nice to be able to raise this also...lol. on mine ideally id have it at 1400 hot and 1800 cold. very often when cold it will fire run a sec or 2 then stall. ill restart it and then its ok but runs like **** for the first 10 sec or so because the idle is too low.

i will test the new version of ee as soon as its uploaded!



-- Edited by turbor on Sunday 20th of May 2012 04:22:17 PM

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well i just tested the new version 2.5.5.98 and still no go also cleared my dtc in engine data screen.

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J are u sure about the idle rpm located inside the flash bin?
Suzuki dealers are updating idle speed with sds in real time.
Maybe u are looking in the wrong place. I really don't know just my 2 cent

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Matador wrote:

J are u sure about the idle rpm located inside the flash bin?
Suzuki dealers are updating idle speed with sds in real time.
Maybe u are looking in the wrong place. I really don't know just my 2 cent


 Do you know if the updates in real time are "sticking"? Seems the SDS will do it, but as soon as the SDS is unplugged, it goes away. Almost like it is modifying one of the COV signals or something.



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I tested the idle speed setting this morning and it works perfectly for me, from cold through to hot :) please try re-setting the isc valve in the engine data screen after flashing the change to idle RPM. I set it to 1500 rpm and rode the bike to work today and it was idle at or about 1500 rpm under all conditions.

You are quite right John, the SDS changes to idle speed are only temporary, once you re-start the bike it reverts to stock. The SDS sets a bit flag and target idle in RAM and the idle code detects the bit flag and uses the sds value instead of the map and values that i have found.

At the moment i only update the values in the coolant temp/idle rpm if the set value is higher than the map value, i will look to expose this table in ee v3.0 for better control.

Cheers

-Justin.



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Guys, I have a MAJOR issue(to Me at least), I was going out to test the Idle issue with the Latest Version of EE 2.5.5.98, could NOT get My Data Screen to Connect..... No Matter what I did! So I went to the FAQ and read were Greg was saying WIN 7 has to be Ran in Admin. (even though I have NEVER had an issue with this b4 I decided to do it anyways)

I followed his instructions, Set it up to Run under Admin and logged out of EE. IT WOULD NOT LET ME BACK IN!!!!

So, I uninstalled EVERYTHING that Pertained to ECU Editor and decided to just download it again. IT WONT EVEN INSTALL NOW!!!! cry Right when it gets done down loading a Box pops up and says "Application cannot be Started, Contact the Application Vendor". confuse

**Edited to due lengh of error Message**



-- Edited by ToXSicK RoCKeT on Sunday 20th of May 2012 11:26:50 PM

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Try downloading the .zip version of the application from the download menu, extract the zip to a folder on your desktop and right click "run as administrator" on the ecueditor.com.exe file...



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jkwool wrote:

Try downloading the .zip version of the application from the download menu, extract the zip to a folder on your desktop and right click "run as administrator" on the ecueditor.com.exe file...


That FIXED IT!!!!!! smile Thank You Sooo Much for the VERY Quick Response and Help...... That's Why YOUR THA MAN J!!!! wink



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ok i will try that tomorrow morning, it is flashed at 1400 right now with 2.5.5.98 so tomorrow i will try resetting isc valve in the engine data screen, do i need to do this with the engine running or just with the key on?  thks alot!



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just with the key on, engine not running.

Cheers

-Justin.



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Well Fella's! I am Proud to Announce.......... IDLE FEATURE WORKS!!!!!! wink

I just Came in from (3) Successful idle Re-Flash's.

***VERY IMPRTANT TO NOTE, You MUST "Reset ISC" before You Flash New Adjustment(RPM)***

1st one I did @ 1400RPM's(Worked)....... 2nd one was @ 1600RPM's(Worked)...... and the Last one was to Put it back to Stock 1150RPM's(Worked)

Please Remember, It will NOT take if you don't "Reset the ISC" though!

Justin, You are the Man Buddy! Thank You Sir for bringing another GREAT FEATURE to Ecu Editor!

Sorry Guy's, I haven't figured out how to Post the Direct Video's on here..... But here are the links you can Copy & Paste and then view. smile

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1MNNpLIGKs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0K_htxAawHQ




-- Edited by ToXSicK RoCKeT on Monday 21st of May 2012 03:43:16 AM

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Thats great, thanks for testing Phil, I am very happy that it is working, good videos as well :)

Cheers

-Justin.



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