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Post Info TOPIC: drsg tools traction control


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drsg tools traction control


would it be hard to have an option to make the traction control cut the ignition instead of retarding timing? it could be a selectable option?  i tested it this afternoon (remember i have a gen 2 busa powered t-rex  www.campagnamotors.com     t-rex are very traction limited so im looking foward to getting the traction control function functional! it was one of the things that motivated me to make the gen1 to 2 electronics swap) and i put the activation at 3000rpm in 2nd gear and retarded the timing 20 degrees... well to be honest it made no difference, the rear tire went in smoke when i gunned it like i tought. i need something way more agressive, only way i think it would work for me is to have it cut the spark.



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Do you have a data log to show what the acceleration is for each gear?
This feature has VERY limited testing on it and it may actually not be doing anything at all. Best bet woudl be to do some data logging to see what kind of acceleration rate is acceptable and also to see that it is actually pulling the timing that it is programmed to pull.




Seems like you might be better suited to go with taller final drive gearing if possible.

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no i dont have any logged data. one question i have i had the activation set at 3000 rpm and  had 1800rpm-sec in 2nd gear with 20deg retard. to test it i whent over 3000 then gunned it in 2ng gear... for the code to activate do i need to gun it lower than the activation treshold?  meaning if i have it activated at 3000rpm i need to gun it before 3000?  or it doesent matter as long as your over the activation threshold and gun it activates?

on the gearing yes your right, but i do alot of road racing and use pretty mutch all the first 5 gears so third gear and so on my gearing is spot on.  but im a drag racer at heart and im the only busa powered t-rex as i converted mine, they are all zx14powered so we have alot of grudge racing going on....lets just say that if and when i get traction control working they will be crying.



-- Edited by turbor on Sunday 20th of May 2012 04:06:02 AM

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Sounds good. I am not really sure on teh activation, but I would assume it woudl be active above the threshold no matter if it started before or after the threshold.

If you can, I would recommend logging a bit just to see if the timing is in fact being retarded and also to see what the rpm rate is. It is possible that the code isn't doing anything at all or isn't working as expected.

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The code works fine i have tested it many times you just have to calibrate it in your needs

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Good to know Matador. If it is working as expected, I am sure it is very sensitive and can be fine tuned.

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i retested it today and it is indeed working, i did change the settings alot so i cant confirm, but it might be my old map that didnt allow the new idle speed feature to work that wasent allowing this feature to work either. i had it set very aggresive at 1000rpm sec in 2nd gear 25 deg retard, and it was like hitting a rev limiter bike was on and off accelerating and slowing down very quicky, i even cought myself lifting being sure the rear wheel would end up in smoke witch didnt happen! great job guys going to have fun thinkering with it!

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Sounds good. If you can get some log data, it should help with your traction issues quite a bit on the T-Rex.

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yeah saving $ for the woolich log box... i logged a bit with my wifes laptop when first making my map to get all the part throttle mapped pretty good, lets just say she wasent too happy about me taking her laptop out with me hahaha my laptop i use to tune cars is too old i cant get framework 4.0 installed on it it wont install anything over 3.5.

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getting it more and more dialed in, working good! would it be hard to be able to turn it off with the ms0-ms1 switch? i plan on going to the track for 1/4 runs with it saturday and wonder how i will be able to do a burnoot with the traction control enabled....

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good point....might be an issue.

Take the laptop and reflash from the water box to the line

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it will do the burn out fine just don't accelerate too hard and u will be fine

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Well ive got pretty dialed in for when im riding alone( most of the time) but this weekend i was on a trip with the wife to mt washington and had both suitcases full. Needless to say the trac control was way to aggresive. It was slowing me down big time. I still think being able to shut it on or off via mso-ms1 is the way to go. That way i could have 2 different trac control maps or have it deactivated completely in ms1

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How could the vehicle accelerate more quickly with more weight in it? I'm not sure I am following how that would make the traction control cut out MORE power than if you were alone.

Is the car that light that it is just way overpowered when you are alone and spins all of the time?

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yes it way overpowered, when your alone and when you have a passenger makes a big difference, and when both suitcases are full off stuff, make an even bigger difference, because they are right next to the rear wheel. t-rexs up to 2006 had zx12 motors, in 2007 when they upgraded to the zx14 motor, they added 75lbs to the frame by changing most of the rear tubes to shafts to help with traction. when i built mine i deciced to buy a 2006 to have the light frame (being a drag racer at heart, more weight is slower lol) but traction is a BIG issue lol So thats why being able to switch from 1 setting to another the traction control or just being able to shut it off would be a big benifit for me!

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Hello,

 

turning the traction control On/Off with ms0/ms1 would be great for track use too.

Better would be to use 2 diffrent traction control settings with ms0/ms1, for example for dry or wet conditions.



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Hi guys,

Not skilled in programming but was able to test TC feature on my bike at quite a few meetings on road racing circuits.
I have found the following "flaw" in it's operation. I am using 2 step limiter, DMS2 activated quickshifter and the TC from dragtools.
1. when i use the 2step from first and it revs just past the threshold revs the TC cuts in severely (I have lowered it's sensitivity a lot but still kicks in even if more moderately) - this is a problem because it stops my acceleration as if I have hit the REV limiter for a second or more. Final set up that I like is switching off (adding 0 in degrees to be retarded for first gear and 5000 rpms per second as threshold).
2. when i use the quickshifter to shift gears the TC kicks in at alot of the upshifts and severity can be influenced by tinkering with setup. This has its limits though for if you make it too insensitive for the shifts it will not work at lean and when powering hard out of corners (when I really need the TC to work).

Now I am using 1900 at 1 degree retard for all gears above 3rd and 2000 and 1 deg for 2nd. TC for 1st is switched off and I am trying to lower the effect of the TC at shifts by moving my weight far back for a moment.

Interesting is that when upshifting the RPMs go down and not up but still the TC kicks in.
Another thing is rough pavement makes the problem worse (this firstly made me experiment with setting of the TC).

I am using the code for closed circuit road racing and since I am an intermediate rider I like to have TC for extra safety reasons.

Regards.

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Hi,

the implementation of traction control in ecueditor is more focused on drag racing hence being in the drag tools section. the module limits rotational acceleration of the engine. There are many more dynamics that need to be taken into consideration for effective traction control when corners and braking are involved. You really need additional sensors including front and rear wheel speed sensors and possibly a gyroscope to detect the lean angle of the bike.



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Member

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Thanks Justin for the quick reply!

Do not get me wrong - i am not complaining in any way. I want to contribute if I can and feedback is what i can do.

Still I think that even being focissed on drag racing - the 2 step should be a problem for them too as the TC kicks in on the RPM threshold and between 1st and 2nd while the bike is straight up on the starts (same for 2,3 but not so severely andfades away with setup) and my bikes power is just a fraction of what the drag bikes do. My point was that it seems to me that the algorithm calculates not the raise of rpms per second but rather the change of rpms per second. If some simple change in it could make it react if there is only a positive (not just any change) change in rpms according to the previous second that would make the system work much better and all of these symptoms go away. If like you say there is no simple solution - then it is good enough as it is either way.

I am really interested though if the drag racers do not experience these effects themselves on the drag strip.

Cheers!



-- Edited by Dark_Ness on Thursday 18th of July 2013 01:48:53 PM

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Just had a quick look at the code as its been awhile since i have looked at it, below is the pseudo code with some comment for what its currently doing. Looks like it is only activating when it is a positive change in RPM.

 

if ((timer > timer_old) // If this is a new measurement

    & (ECU_RPM > ACTIVATION) // and RPM is greater than Activation RPM

    & (rpm_now > rpm_old)) // and current RPM is greater than last measured RPM

{

    // Calculate the time since last measurement

    // Calculate the RPM Difference since last measurement

    // Work out the RPM Rate of Change

}

else

{

    // Set RPM Rate = 0

}



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Hi Justin,

It has been a while since I have firstly started to use the TC and quickshifter and trying to implement them for road racing.

At this point my conclusion is the following (for my current level of riding).

If you enable the TC and quickshifter together and do not want to have troubles between (hard and long ignition reatrd) shifts you have to go at least as high as 60-65ms for quickshifter (you will still get the ignition cut now and then though especially of you are not back on the seat). TC timing reard should be not more than 1 and trigger RPMS more than 2500.

The problem for me is that this makes the TC not sensitive enough for the time when you really need it with high lean angles and hard on the gas off corners.

So my question is - could you implement a modification in the code where the TC is not active(switched off temporary/on standby, whatever is easier) for "X" amount of time in miliseconds after a signal for quickshifting is present?

This way you would not have ignition cut when QS is shifting and TC can be set sensitive enough for when you trully need it (when in gear and not quickshifting). Also on my bike for example i can go as low as 38-40 ms for safe and fast shifting in each gear.

Thanks in advance if you could spare a minute.

I will post this in new features requested section of the forum.



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Hy there...are there any updates on how to set traction control for best use?! Im planing to upgrade my K5 electronics to use the bin file from busa for traction usage...

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