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Post Info TOPIC: getting my 08 ready to play with boost fuel tuning


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getting my 08 ready to play with boost fuel tuning


turbo is just resting there to see how it will look when motor goes back in






















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look like someone is about to have some fun...

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Mate, that turbo disturbs me. Deep down. At a primal level.

How do I get that setup?

Seriously.

Camel

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Something wonderful is going to happen...


Guru

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i believe that's a RCC stage 1 kit with full exhaust...but from reading Greg's going to use a 1:1 regulator and GM 3 bar maps sensor for boost fueling through the stock ecu...smile i will be watching his progress as i contemplate getting a gen2 for that very reason.

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Guru

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busa2001 has it right :)

ends up being a very inexpensive stage 2 :)

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Guru

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Put a set of pistons and rods in it while you have the motor out and turn that chit up!

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And the Aussie dollar is fast reaching parity with the USD, thereby making such a kit quite affordable!

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Something wonderful is going to happen...


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Camel wrote:

And the Aussie dollar is fast reaching parity with the USD, thereby making such a kit quite affordable!






do it do it :)

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Its alive!

Video
www.boostbysmith.com/Videos/08startup.wmv






















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looks good greg....smile

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Looks awesome! I would also really like to get such clean parts to install! :)

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- Jari // GSX1400R '0x // 355.1km/h / 9.193s -



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Very interesting pictures, Thank you wink

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greg, how is the bike coming along.???

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Nice setup Greg, just need to get rid of that Black canister and a get matching Blue one. LOL



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Guru

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looks good, why not use the ECU to control those injectors in the plenum?

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I'm trying to resist, I wimped out and have a secondary controller/injectors (not the MicroTech) on the bike. I prefer hacking the ECU. I have a hacked ECU in my Twin turbo Firebird.
I've been lurking on this board keeping an eye on the great development you guys have been doing. I'm looking for a Boost retard function based on MAP, cold start adjustability, Lambda tweaking, idle compensation......

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ill bet eventually petrik will play with boost compensated timing retard

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MMMMMmmmmmmmmm I was wondering what happened to my RCC kit ? Bugger lol

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Friday getting up at 3am to make the 5 hour drive to RCC Turbos in canada for some dyno tuning with boostfuel.

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smithabusa wrote:

Friday getting up at 3am to make the 5 hour drive to RCC Turbos in canada for some dyno tuning with boostfuel.




 nice.....



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we expect to see lots of pics Greg. smile

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good luck.......smile

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Come on Greg update.

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been chatting with greg all night, fuelling issues.


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hope it's all gets worked out...

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Wow talk about a long day, left house at 3:30am and just got gome 21 hours later.

Customs freaked out that i wantes to drive 3 hrs into canada to have a bike tuned. Took 45 minutes before the finally let kurt and i through.

Not sure how to feel today, came up short of 300 hp with stock injectors and 1:1 regulator. It toom a some huge numbers in the boost fuel table at upper rpms to get afr under 12. Thanks to petrik for all his help, unfortunately we ran out of time before really figuring it out. In hine sight i wish i had been externally logging fuel pressure, and both upper/lower injector duty cycles. With that much injector we shoukd have easily hit 300 hp in my opinion, somethin kust be going on, fuel pump jot giving enough, or injectors not coming on, or or lol.

Richard did notice the transition from lower to upper injectors that happens at 5600 or so seemed hard to get real clean, might be something to look at.

Petrik we tried a pull at 12 psi with 255% in the upper rpms and pulsewidth i think showed over 700 on gauge data screen.

A monster thanks to richard for killing an entire day helpin work on this.

At 3psi it made 190 hp, 6 psi 233 hp, 8 psi 252 ish, 10 psi 271 ish.

Richard will send dyno sheets next week im going from memory now.

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v191/gsmith1979/FriJan29131012AmericaNew_York2010.jpg[/IMG]







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270 is not a bad result either for the first go.

I will look into making the tuning map better reflect fuelling changes. Also try to look at the transition point if there is something to be done.

Here is what the current injector pulses look like. Top/blue is secondaries and when the line is flat it means 100% duty. Top of the line is the time when injector is closed and bottom of the line shows when injector is on (kind of reversed). You can see how the red line gets sqeezed from top and increased in the bottom with higher boost pressure.



-- Edited by PetriK on Saturday 30th of January 2010 10:44:22 AM

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Greg, looked the fuel calculations, scoped the fuel signal and tried various things.

There seems to be some more injector pulsewidth to be squeezed out when using the boostfuel module by changing the pri/sec map to 50/50 instead of 80/20.

Using BFSC 0.5 and calculating the max hp, the 80/20 settings deliver around 275hp which is darn close what you got. When changing to 50/50 the total pulsewidth should allow up to 381hp assuming that the stock injector size is 24lbs. There is still one issue with all this thoug, the 1:1 regulator should have not needed more fuel as with 0.7psi you would be getting (275 * sqrt(3,5bar/3bar)) = 297hp. If the BFSC used was around 0.55 then the fuel would have maxed out at 270hp. To get BFSC then need to look for the AFR.

What all this means is that with 43psi fuel pressure
1) if engine is up to 250hp, there should be no need to change the fuel balancing
2) if engine is 250-350hp then injector balance 50/50 may be beneficial
both above require fuel pump upgrade to Bosch intank fuelpump
3) if 1:1 regulator with any pump, over 300hp it may be beneficial change the fuel balancing. In that case 400 hp at 14psi boost is close to max with stock injectors

... all the above assuming those stock injectors are 24lbs injectors.

This is a sample what I measured using an oscilloscope from the fuel signals and then further calculating the hp:
injbalance_boostfuel.jpg




-- Edited by PetriK on Saturday 30th of January 2010 02:18:59 PM

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very interesting, well I can try and squeeze in a dyhno session at schnitz maybe sometime, might have to wait until my son is born in about a month though, its only 3 hour drive there.

Out of curiosity how does changing the inejctor balancing change the flow capacity? It does seem that as soon as the upper injectgors are doing most of the work is when we have to put HUGE number in the boostfuel table.

Thanks very much for all your time you dedicate to this petrik :)

Greg

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Guru

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You do get the fuel out from 80/20 setting too, but its like adding a number to a another number that gets smaller every time you add a number to it. So every time you need to be adding much more bigger number to get same response. To max out the primaries you need pulsewidth numbers well over 1000 and boostfuel map is currenly at max giving 900 or something.

Additionally this practise seems to make it possible to avoid running secondaries flat out and then adjusting just primaries. Better practise would be to run both less than 100%.

When using 50/50 you get quite linear response when adding fuelmap or boostfuel numbers and then flatting out both injectors really requires quite some power out of the bike.

I am just adding some functionality to ecueditor so that the user knows when to go and change the injector balance table to get linear response for tuning. The transition point seems to be around 65%.


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excellent petrik, i went to bed not feeling he greatest about the day, now with this information I have a lot better feeling in my gut :)



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here is a video of the 270 hp pull
psssht lol
www.boostbysmith.com/Videos/dynorun.wmv



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Guru

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nice! i know you gona turn it up and try the 50/50 injector balance. biggrin

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great start greg......smile

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injbalance_boostfuel.jpg






Quick note on turbo fuel pressures
a 1:1 reg will only maintain "effective" fuel pressure, 346 hp capability will still be 346hp of fuel  at 7 psi with a 1:1 reg, 2:1 would give the 374hp
A concept i have to remind myself often or i will still miscalculate


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Yes, youre right, my thinking mistake - needs to be over boost pressure to increase flow. Thanks for reminding, this just demonstrates the point that I am not doing turbo stuff daily.


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busa2001 wrote:

nice! i know you gona turn it up and try the 50/50 injector balance. biggrin




I think I am going to let Stocker and Toxxic due some NOS testing before I resume turbo testing.  Next time I go to the dyno I want to test boost fuel as well as gear based boost control, that way if it all works out I will be ready to go in the spring :)



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smithabusa wrote:

busa2001 wrote:

nice! i know you gona turn it up and try the 50/50 injector balance. biggrin




I think I am going to let Stocker and Toxxic due some NOS testing before I resume turbo testing.  Next time I go to the dyno I want to test boost fuel as well as gear based boost control, that way if it all works out I will be ready to go in the spring :)



hopefully my bike will be completely finished for friday.....wink

 



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do i get a excited phone call from the dyno if it works?  If it doesn't no need to call HAHA

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smithabusa wrote:

busa2001 wrote:

nice! i know you gona turn it up and try the 50/50 injector balance. biggrin




I think I am going to let Stocker and Toxxic due some NOS testing before I resume turbo testing.  Next time I go to the dyno I want to test boost fuel as well as gear based boost control, that way if it all works out I will be ready to go in the spring :)



Is gear base boost control still implemented in ecu editor, i asume boost base ignition comp. is in the works ready to go then, Petrik has been busy with this gen2 stuff...smile  

 



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smithabusa wrote:

do i get a excited phone call from the dyno if it works?  If it doesn't no need to call HAHA




 you will definately hear either way,i will post results... i wished i had someone to record a pull, i will be on a "older " factory pro dyno, it is an eddy current type....my favorite.....and it has a gas analizer, i will be looking at my wego unit on the bike and comparing....biggrin



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download windows media encodr for free from microsoft, thats what i use to video the laptop screen, it was incredibly helpful for dyno tuning, made a video for every pull, then there was no doubt where we were at with everything etc

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Dyno sheets...



4 psi / 6 psi / 8 psi / 10-11 psi









-- Edited by smithabusa on Saturday 6th of February 2010 12:35:46 AM

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Guru

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looks good Greg. smile AFR under boost is right on the money, are you running a boost controler?

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not yet, waiting on ECU EDITOR boost control :)

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smithabusa wrote:

not yet, waiting on ECU EDITOR boost control :)



i hear you. pretty sure it going to worth the wait..smile

 



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Bike is back together, finally put the plastic back on, man I HATE the gen II plastic.

3 psi of boost is not much fun, less than 200 hp with lowered compression, time to get the ECU boost control testing, just need some warmer weather now.....







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nice weapon you just have to load it!

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bike looks good Greg...smile

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Petrik............THANK YOU!!!!

Video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5T7-1l5Hh3I



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