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Post Info TOPIC: Interfacing to KTM Keihin ECU - CANBUS


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Interfacing to KTM Keihin ECU - CANBUS


Hey all, I got a 2012 KTM 350 excf dirt bike that uses Keihin EFI.  KTM has tuning software for free, but they like to charge $500 for their cable.  I figure I could make one of my own.  So I purchased a OBD CAN to USB adapter from DealExtreme, as well as a spare female connector.  I am just now wiring it up.

I have two issues:

(1) from the KTM schematic I can tell which lines are the CAN lines, but I cannot tell which is CANH and which is CANL.  I hooked up a scope, but all I see on both lines is they jump to 2.5V - I cant see any data (timebase set to 2us).  I could have my triggering all messed up though.

 

(2) The KTM has 6 wires for its diagonistics port. 2 grounds, +12V, 2 CAN wires plus an unknown light blue wire. This wire goes right to the ECU without any other connections.  Any clue to what this might be?  Perhaps it might need to be pulled high or grounded to enable the CANBUS output?

 

(3) Can you point me to some introductory information on motorcycle ECUs - specifically to help me understand pinouts, protocols, protection, etc.

 

thanks!

 



-- Edited by OrangeBoy on Wednesday 27th of June 2012 12:31:46 AM

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Oh and here is some info off the ECU sticker - if it helps any:

631E-193C-000
812.41.031.033 EXCI001
Keihin 7087-117696


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Hey - http://tuneecu.com/TuneECU_En/KTM (dot) html here it is scheme of ecu connector but i'm not sure is the same :)


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Thanks for the link.  Thats actually  K-Line OBD used on the 660/990, not CAN-Bus OBD.  The KTM dirt bikes use CAN-Bus.



-- Edited by OrangeBoy on Wednesday 27th of June 2012 10:55:55 PM

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What colors are the Can wires?

Problem that might be if you are planning to use KTM stock software may be:
Some cable/software manufacturers writes identifiers in cable firmware, if it dont match software wont accept a custom cable.
In this case you will have to either hack and clone a stock cable, or write your own flasher that accepts your custom cable.

Keep us updated on the progress! :)

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I hope this serves you with some corrections may work : http://pinoutsguide.com/CarElectronics/obd-2_universal_cable_pinout.shtml

http://www.outilsobdfacile.com/diagnostic-interface-elm-327.html



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I hope this serves you with some corrections may work : http://www.outilsobdfacile.com/diagnostic-interface-elm-327.html



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Any joy with this project



-- Edited by Guru Racer on Friday 22nd of February 2013 04:52:58 AM

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I would also be interested... According to the dealer the tool is the same for all bikes, so I guess the tool supports K-line as well as CAN Bus. I ordered the parts (connectors, generic OBD device) to build a cable, planning to validate the other pins in the connector for the CAN bus pair.

Can I always expect a signal on the bus, or only when initiated by an external device (that I would need to connect)?



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I also have a Ktm 350 i can test on, but from 2014 the factory tool is now a handheld device if i got it correct?
If someone have easy access to either old software and cable or the new handheld device, and kan try and sniff the diagnostic lines?

Clone a genuine cable or write new software after sniffing remains to be seen, wich would be easiest/fastest.



-- Edited by Twice on Saturday 10th of May 2014 09:33:30 PM

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Based on the 350 SX-F schematics I was able to identify the different wires.

      
KTM ECUKTM ColourFunctionKTM PinOBD PinNotes
Pin 1Orange+12V116?Power, fused. Always on?
Pin 31Black-BlueCAN 126/14R30, 2.5V. CAN Hi or Low?
Pin 32White-BlueCAN 236/14R30, 2.5V. CAN Hi or Low?
Pin 10Light Blue?47?K-line on LC4/LC8/RC4=OBD pin 7
Pin 30White-Black+12V516?Power, switched
Pin 35, 36, 8BrownGround64/5Vehicle Ground

There are some questionmarks:

- Power. Could be KTM pin 1 or 5. I guess it does not really matter until we get it working.
- CAN high and CAN low: Not sure which is which. Could use trial and error to find out.
- Do we need to do anything with KTM connector Pin 4? It is connected to ECU Pin 10. On the LC4/LC8/RC8 interface it is used for the K-line. I would be surprised if that would be in use in a system where CAN bus is used... but could it be used to trigger something, like the topicstarter suggests?

I built it like this, but somehow I could not get my bluetooth OBD adapter to recognize a bike. Tried switching the 2 CAN wires, but still no luck. 

I understand that the FI Husabergs use the same system. The KTM road-legal versions are locked, to prevent tampering, the MX versions are not. But I don't know whether it was made to work only with the $500 KTM tool.

Does anyone know from other bikes where similar Keihin units are used, how to make this one cooperate?

 



-- Edited by mmrizio on Thursday 15th of May 2014 07:48:27 AM

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hello ,

first sory for my english,

i am on the same problem,

i try to connect a solo dl to husqvarna fc 250 2017 (same ktm sxf250 ) but i need to analyze the canbus for make a new device for the aim solo dl .
the device will be do by technicien from AIM but he want i give to him protocol fro canbus on this bike,

some one have any solution ?


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I have a 17 fc350 that I need the ecu programmed on can you help?



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Anyone have any luck with this?

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Also interested if you succeeded.



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Somebody needs to have the UST tool and then either log the internal windows DLL or have a second CAN adaptor logging the ECU read and ECU write functions to begin working on this. The optimal solution is build a UST to FTDI wrapper. I googled the UST a bit and saw something about it using the Microsoft smartcard subsystem. They may have been smart and used some good security in the UST dongle. Not sure. 



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Hey Guys!

 

I got a UST incl Cable, may we can restart these Topic?

 

Someone can help me with sniffing the data?

 

Thank!



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I am trying to remember this thread - fuzzy...  pardon if I am in left field. If you want to program your bike, you can find the SW tool to use with the UST on the internet. If you want to contribute to adding functionality to the open source community, we need to understand the protocol from the UST to the SW application. With that information, people can build an open source application to work with a normal OBD USB device or any other CAN to FTDI device.

My suggested broad strokes:

1. Setup a CAN logging system. This could maybe be a Chinese OBD dongle, but I would get a cheap industrial automation CAN to USB adaptor that comes with some decent apps to read and save logs. You wire the logging CAN hardware in parallel to the CAN bus. If you do this and there is no data, it's a SW problem or there are network errors. You can use a cheap scope to examine the CAN bus waveform. It should be a bunch of nice square pulses, if not play with the termination resistance. Some CAN adapters have a high impedance HW setting so it doesn't mess up the network, but you need to check this if you are not getting data that looks normal.

2. Take data logs. A huge dump will not be too helpful. The best thing to do is to use the UST with the UST SW and play with the functions and create different logs with the industrial CAN device for each function. For example, the UST SW needs to read parameters to populate the UST SW user interface. Log that and make good notes of anything interesting, including time stamps when you click "read," etc. When you save a config to the bike log that, and so on as possible. 

3. Once the basics are logged, the next step is to build a simple app to read the bike parameters using the industrial CAN device, then eventually write, and so on..

Hope this helps. Sorry if you knew this already and were looking for more detail.

 



-- Edited by robinasu on Thursday 28th of November 2019 09:22:33 PM

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